Bob Collis Posted 17 August , 2013 Share Posted 17 August , 2013 Hi all: I joined this esteemed forum back in 2005 with a query about a seaplane raid on Lowestoft in February 1916. I've subsequently re-joined with an inquiry about a Zeppelin raid on the town, the second of two. The date was 9 August 1915, the time was 10.00 pm and while I cannot recall the source of the basic information, I noted that 10 HE bombs were dropped and that ..."houses were damaged and a girl was killed". The "girl" was 20 year-old Helen Grace Cook who lived at High Street, Lowestoft, but I do not believe that this was where she died. Was a formal record of civilians killed in the UK in WW 1 compiled? And does it indicate where they lost their lives? I expect that a full list of the routes and bombing incidents on this night was compiled, and I would be very interested to learn which Zeppelin was responsible for the raid. Helen Cook was the only person to lose her life through air attack on Lowestoft in the Great War - although four were killed in the warship bombardment in April 1916. If anyone could shed any light on the 9 Aug 1915 raid I'd be very interested to hear. thanks in advance for any assistance. Regards, BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWET59 Posted 17 August , 2013 Share Posted 17 August , 2013 HI bc The Zeppelin was the naval L11, commanded by Oberleutnant Freiherr von Buttlar (who apparently thought that he'd bombed Harwich). I've von Buttlar's book and will look up his version of events. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 17 August , 2013 Share Posted 17 August , 2013 Was a formal record of civilians killed in the UK in WW 1 compiled? And does it indicate where they lost their lives? Not as far as I know - the CWGC would have been one to do it but in WW1 their remit didn't include the civilians killed in the UK. I've always thought it would be good to have a list compiled. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWET59 Posted 17 August , 2013 Share Posted 17 August , 2013 Hi Bob von Buttlar's book is somewhat desultory and couldn't find anything definite. However, other books show that L11 arrived over Lowestoft at 22.18. it wasn't until the bombing began that RNAS Yarmouth was alerted and Flight Commander de Courcy Widnor Plunkett Ireland took off in a BE. He spent almost an hour searching without success and returned, only to make a heavy landing which wrote off his plane's undercarriage. As an aside, de Courcy Ireland was killed on 21st February 1916 while carrying out experimental work on the AP1 project (see "Zeppelin-born fighters" topic). There doesn't seem to be a national register of civilians killed by enemy action in the Great War. Local councils/museums/libraries may hold information, however, censorship makes write ups pretty bland in lots of cases. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Collis Posted 18 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 18 August , 2013 Gentlemen, Many thanks for your most useful input. Whilst I'm on, I have a few pictures and documents from the great nephew of a crewman who was killed aboard L21, brought down in flames in the sea 8 miles off Lowestoft on 28 November 1916. I've read up quite a bit on the action this night, but the only thing missing is a complete crew-list of the 17 on board. Can anyone please direct me to where I can obtain this information? TIA, BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spconnolly007 Posted 18 August , 2013 Share Posted 18 August , 2013 Bob, L21 was under the command of Oberleutnant Kurt Frankenberg. You might find a crew list by using his name on the search? Regards, Sean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWET59 Posted 18 August , 2013 Share Posted 18 August , 2013 Bob The Watch Officer was Leutnant zur See der Reserve Hans-Werner Salzbrunn. Mention of NCOs and Ratings seem a bit thin on the ground. Regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeppRaider Posted 18 August , 2013 Share Posted 18 August , 2013 Bob There is a crew list for L21 in Casualties of the German Air Service 1914-1920, which lists Frankenberg, Salzbrunn and 14 other ranks. Happy to scan and send over if you PM me. I would also be fascinated to have a look at the documentation that you have on the L21 crew member concerned for my own interest. With regard to L11's raid on Lowestoft on 9-10 August 1915, this Zeppelin took off from its base at Nordholz at 12.28pm and returned at 5.18am (more info in Robinson's The Zeppelin in Combat if you want it). V. Buttlar though he was over Harwich and dumped all his bombs when he came under fire from some naval 12-pounders at Lowestoft. Most fell in the sea, where the British mistook then for water flares. I don't have anything on the casualties other than 1 women was killed and 7 injured. I have a number of postcards showing the damage to Lowestoft after the April 15 Zeppelin raid and April 16 Naval bombardment if these are of interest to your research. I confirm earlier comments in that there is no central register of those killed by the Zepp Raiders and it's usually a matter of trawling local resources (e.g. I ended up going through Coroner's reports for further details of victims of one raid (Woodbridge 15)). I look forward to hearing from you. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Collis Posted 18 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 18 August , 2013 Thanks again for your help gentlemen. ZR, (David) PM dispatched. Best wishes, BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 19 August , 2013 Share Posted 19 August , 2013 I have details of about 300 names or so of civilians that died in the UK in WW1 due to enemy action - I aim to put them on a site I have once I have a bit more information.Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spconnolly007 Posted 20 August , 2013 Share Posted 20 August , 2013 Craig, if you need any extra details on the 18 children killed in June 1917 at the Upper North street School in Poplar, London let me know. Regards, Sean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspern Posted 21 August , 2013 Share Posted 21 August , 2013 There is a crew list for L21 in Casualties of the German Air Service 1914-1920, which lists Frankenberg, Salzbrunn and 14 other ranks. Happy to scan and send over if you PM me. I would also be fascinated to have a look at the documentation that you have on the L21 crew member concerned for my own interest. Hi David I was just looking at the list of the crew of L.21 in Ray Rimmel's 'Zeppelin!' and he gives 15 other ranks KIA: Brieger, Carlsen, Grass, Hintzer, Jensen, Kaczikowski, Kiel, Klann, Metzger, Petznick, Prinke, Reischel, Schmidt, Schwarz and Wittkugel. I've no idea which list would be right though! Which one is the extra man? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeppRaider Posted 21 August , 2013 Share Posted 21 August , 2013 Hi David I was just looking at the list of the crew of L.21 in Ray Rimmel's 'Zeppelin!' and he gives 15 other ranks KIA: Brieger, Carlsen, Grass, Hintzer, Jensen, Kaczikowski, Kiel, Klann, Metzger, Petznick, Prinke, Reischel, Schmidt, Schwarz and Wittkugel. I've no idea which list would be right though! Which one is the extra man? Ian Ian, my list of the crew of L.21 does not include Jensen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspern Posted 22 August , 2013 Share Posted 22 August , 2013 Ok. Rimmel lists Jensen as Steuerman Christian Jensen, born 26/6/1883 in Amrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdoyle Posted 22 August , 2013 Share Posted 22 August , 2013 have you seen this report at TNA http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/details/C4081147?descriptiontype=Full&ref=AIR+1/634/17/122/112 possibly the death register entry for Helen G Cook Name: Hellen G Cook Estimated Birth Year: abt 1895 Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1915 Age at Death: 20 Registration District: Mutford Inferred County: Suffolk Volume: 4a Page: 1049 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Collis Posted 22 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 22 August , 2013 Many thanks John. Copies of the local rag the Lowestoft journal are still available at Lowestoft Heritage Workshop Centre but I imagine that censorship may have kicked in by then so not sure of how much gen will be found therein? Thanks to all who contributed, your input is very much appreciated. BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 22 August , 2013 Share Posted 22 August , 2013 Not too sure about the censorship. I have read bits and pieces that there could have been censorship on reporting what was happening in France but not what happened here. It could have been better for those over here to be scared and improve recruitment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Strawbridge Posted 24 August , 2013 Share Posted 24 August , 2013 have you seen this report at TNA http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/details/C4081147?descriptiontype=Full&ref=AIR+1/634/17/122/112 possibly the death register entry for Helen G CookName: Hellen G Cook Estimated Birth Year: abt 1895 Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1915 Age at Death: 20 Registration District: Mutford Inferred County: Suffolk Volume: 4a Page:1049 This is the right one even though mis-registered as Hellen. Not a BMD error - the actual Register shows this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspern Posted 25 September , 2014 Share Posted 25 September , 2014 Helen Cook was the only person to lose her life through air attack on Lowestoft in the Great War - although four were killed in the warship bombardment in April 1916. If anyone could shed any light on the 9 Aug 1915 raid I'd be very interested to hear. I've just been doing some research on the Zepp raid on Lowestoft on 9th August at the National Archives. They record that the only death was that of 18-year-old Kate Crawford, killed by a bomb that landed on 12 Lovewell Road. No reference to a Helen Cook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 25 September , 2014 Share Posted 25 September , 2014 You are correct, Aspern. I suspect that as Helen Cook's death was registered in Lowestoft* her death seemed to make her the obvious casualty. CGM *edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 25 September , 2014 Share Posted 25 September , 2014 The locals seem to believe Helen Cook was a casualty of the raid - http://www.edp24.co.uk/mobile/news/can_you_help_to_uncover_background_of_lowestoft_s_first_air_raid_victim_1_3652074 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 25 September , 2014 Share Posted 25 September , 2014 They do, and I'm not sure for how long this error has existed. Edit - Goodness, I've just read that link! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 25 September , 2014 Share Posted 25 September , 2014 They do, and I'm not sure for how long this error has existed. Edit - Goodness, I've just read that link! It would be interesting to see what records the have - rather a big error if they're barking up the wrong tree. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 25 September , 2014 Share Posted 25 September , 2014 I will contact a few people.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 25 September , 2014 Share Posted 25 September , 2014 They have contact details on the bottom of the article - an invite here may be appropriate. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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