Weejanie1 Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 When visiting the Newfoundland monument I overheard a guide tell a class of school children that the kilted regiments(not sure which one) were known as the ladies from hell. I have never heard this before and wondered if someone could tell me the story behind it. Thanks Jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 Jane, German nickname for the 51st(Highland) Division. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 Allegedly used of all kilted troops, I thought. I say "allegedly" - is it true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_East Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 I think the story behind this is that when the Germans first experienced battle against kilted soldiers,they thought they the British were deploying women in the frontline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarylW Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 There is a book Ladies from hell (London Scottish) online, published 1918 free to read at archive.org http://archive.org/d...mhell00pinkgoog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weejanie1 Posted 13 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2013 Thanks all will try and get the book would make interesting reading. Regards Jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seany Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 I think the story behind this is that when the Germans first experienced battle against kilted soldiers,they thought they the British were deploying women in the frontline. Oh I think unlikely - kilted regiments had been around for considerable time and were well known to the German army. I think their first thought would have been 'its the Scots (nail everything down and hide the booze). The nickname must be simply that rather than any possible thought of women coming into action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 Oh I think unlikely - kilted regiments had been around for considerable time and were well known to the German army. I think their first thought would have been 'its the Scots (nail everything down and hide the booze). The nickname must be simply that rather than any possible thought of women coming into action. More methodist(or scots equivlent) at the time? Agree the skirts tag goes back to at least wellington's army. Is this a case of german nickname given in scorn but taken on by the troops with pride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genegwf Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 CaryIW, Thank you for the link to "THE LADIES FROM HELL", a good read. Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth505 Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 is it possible someone conflated laddies w/ladies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 Ken, Assuming the "Ladies from Hell" came from North East Scotland e.g. Gordon Highlanders. Their dogs would be called Laddie and Lassie. Their friendly(Buchan Scots/Doric) names for boys was "Loon" and girls "Guine". George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 See - http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=186808&hl=%22ladies+from+hell%22 Having great respect for Jack Sheldon, I am inclined to rely on his assessment that no such description was coined by the Germans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weejanie1 Posted 13 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2013 Its just i overheard the guide and I thought what a good story if its true. Would like to read a bit more about It. I really dont think it was to hide the booze as Seany suggested )). Thanks all. Regards Jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 Jane, An "objective"?modern Book,you may wish to consider reading about Scotland(in its widest sense) during WW1. Is "The Flowers of the Forest(Scotland and the First World War)" by Trevor Royle. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weejanie1 Posted 13 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2013 Thanks george Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 Jane. I know nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseM88 Posted 14 April , 2013 Share Posted 14 April , 2013 I've only ever heard of the phrase as specifically referring to the Black Watch, but that is where most of research has been. I suppose most of the tartans would have looked the same to the Germans and the term was applied to all kilted British soldiers. The government tartan was the basis for a variety of regiments so I can understand the confusion of anyone who hasn't looked into the specifics of them. Here's a short album I put together to illustrate my point (the order is: Argyll & Sutherland, Black Watch, Gordon, Seaforth Highlanders), http://imgur.com/a/PeOuv If I got any of them wrong someone please let me know. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw63 Posted 14 April , 2013 Share Posted 14 April , 2013 I too did believe this myth and was convinced it applied to the 51st Highland Division. However, after looking up a number of references and re-reading the Divisional history, I don't believe it any more. I found these two articles very interesting: http://www.scotsman....acked-1-1425843 http://bshistorian.w...dies-from-hell/ Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weejanie1 Posted 14 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 14 April , 2013 thanks Simon very interesting reading. Regards Jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 18 April , 2013 Share Posted 18 April , 2013 I was led to believe that 'Ladies from Hell' was a term first used by the British press/newspapers. However, the Germans did seem to have published a kind of league table of divisions and a copy was allegedly found on a German POW and later published. I have seen details on this in the diaries of 152nd Bde. I will try to locate it later. I do seem to remember that the list translated from German as 'Much to be Fearedness' and 51st Highland Div. and Guards Div. were at the top of their list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weejanie1 Posted 18 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2013 Thanks seaforths would be interested in seeing it if you can locate it. Regards Jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 19 April , 2013 Share Posted 19 April , 2013 German intelligence staffs did indeed keep a league table of the quality of enemy divisions - and drew conclusions about future Allied intentions from the particular stationing of this or that division. There was no category anything like 'much to be feared', which is hardly surprising. The actual designations were as follows: 'Especially good assault division' 'Good assault division' 'Good average division' 'Average division' 'Mediocre division' By January 1918, 51st (Highland) Division was in the top category which suggests that it must have also been amongst the most improved British divisions, because after Festubert in May 1915, Haig described it as, 'practically untrained and very green in all field duties'. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw63 Posted 19 April , 2013 Share Posted 19 April , 2013 By January 1918, 51st (Highland) Division was in the top category which suggests that it must have also been amongst the most improved British divisions, because after Festubert in May 1915, Haig described it as, 'practically untrained and very green in all field duties'. Jack That's because Festubert was their first engagement and they had only arrived in France two weeks earlier. They were known as Harper's Duds (after Divisional CO Major General G. M. Harper CB,DSO) from late September 1915, but quickly adapted to new training methods which saw the 51st Division become the model for attacking tactics. By the time of their capture of Beaumont Hamel in Novemebr 1916 they were considered a very efficient division. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 25 April , 2013 Share Posted 25 April , 2013 Thanks seaforths would be interested in seeing it if you can locate it. Regards Jane I hope you can read this. It took me a while to track it down! Marjorie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 25 April , 2013 Admin Share Posted 25 April , 2013 In "Christmas Truce" by Malcolm Brown and Shirley Seaton, a German officer is quoted in a letter referring to 2nd Scots Guards (but probably meant 6th Gordon Highlanders) as having "short petticoats and bare legs". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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