black soldiers

[Guest lynsey1]

I was wondering how many black soldiers fought in the great war. I remember seeing a documentary some time back about men who came from the west indies and it told the story of the conditions that they lived in while on board the ships and how many of them died because of pneumonia( i think)

lynsey

[Paul Reed]

There were a large number of Black men who served with the British armed forces in WW1; mainly as labour toops. You have already mentioned the British West Indies Regiment, who raised a dozen battalions, and also the South African Native Labour Corps who brought more than 20,000 Black South Africans to the Western Front. Not all died of disease or illness; many were killed by shell fire, and a soldier of BWIR was executed at Poperinge in 1917.

There was also a sizeable Black community in Britain in 1914 - with 20,000 Black men in Liverpool alone by 1919. Many of them served in the British Army; some killed, many wounded and several highly decorated.

I did an article on this in a back issue of Stand To! - journal of the Western Front Association as it was the subject of my MA thesis some years ago.

[Bob Coulson]

Lynsey,

You may be interested in 2nd Lt Walter Tull of the Middlesex Regt.

First black officer and former pro footballer.

Bob.

[Will O'Brien]

Bob

I remember reading about Walter Tull - Didn't the army have to bend the rules regarding a commission for him because of his colour?

Will

[john w.]

Gerard Oram's Book.. Worthless Men.. will add a great deal to your understanding of all people in the British Army including black soldiers.. well worth the read and thought provoking

John

[HERITAGE PLUS]

you may find thid site of interest:

http://www.mod.uk/wewerethere/files/introduction.html

[Bob Coulson]

Will,

They may indeed have had to "bend the rules" as far as Walter Tull goes as one of the articles I have read about him says the 1914 manual of military law excluded "Negroes" from excersing command. The article goes on to say that his superior officers must have recommended him.

Perhaps someone can clarify this.?

Bob.

[Paul Reed]

The phrase was 'Men Of Colour' being excluded from military service... Tull was lightly skinned, so just about passed. I also suspect he wasn't the first Black officer; there was a Black officer in the Canadian Black Pioneer Battalion.

[Adrian]

Try the book "Colouring Over The White Line" for more on Walter Tull.

[Neil Burns]

Hi All,

A number of the French Colonial troops were black and there were 2 Black US Combat Divisions, one of which served under French command. A number of black US troops were used as supply and transport troops.

Take care,

Neil

[Paul Reed]

Of the two US Black divisions, only one saw combat - the one attached to the French (?91st). The other was used to fetch and carry behind the lines... the AEF, like the British, were not keen on using Black troops to fight white men. Only the French were different - they would use anyone to evict the Germans from France.

[Neil Burns]

Hi Paul,

The 92nd "Buffalo" Served in the Meuse-Argonne offensive the 93rd was broken up under French command. Elements of both divisions saw combat only the 92nd as an actual Division if I recall.

Due to the prevalent racism of the time most Black US troops were used as stevedores, labor troops etc.

Take care,

Neil

[paul guthrie]

Yes the 92d did see action in the Meuse Argonne battle. It did very badly but so did some of the white divisions. The French were quite happy with the regiments which served with them after the British refused to have them.

[christine liava'a]

There were "Black' soldiers, or rather "brown", in colonial forces, specifically the NZ maori or Pioneer battalion which actually contained men from the Pacific islands, and Pakeha ( European) NZers as well;

the Fiji Labour corps, and other Labour corps; the French Pacific battalion , which I am still trying to find info on, even some aborigines in the AIF, I think.

Did any American Indians serve in the US or Canadian forces?

[paul guthrie]

Joseph Standing Buffalo was killed in 1918 belonged to a Manitoba Regimend and is buried between Arras and Ayette. Bet you can guess whose grandson he was! Do not look at CWGC first.

[christine liava'a]

Sitting Bull? ( without looking)

[Jock Bruce]

Lots here about units from the British West Indies

http://website.lineone.net/~bwir/

Jock

[Tim Birch]

I forget the name of the troop ship, but one was torpedoed or hit a mine in the Channel as she arrived carrying South African Labour Corps Troops. Something like 700 black South African troops were drowned.

Tim

[Guest stevebec]

The Aborigines were under Aussie law not citizens and as such could not vote or serve in the armed forces.

But as stated many did.

Many were enlisted because they were not so called full blood but of half caste. So they were not all the black.

There were a small number of full blood enlisted and only late in the war.

Numbers differ but I don't think the were any more then hand full of full bloods in the AIF and maybe two hundred of half caste. But these are only an informed guess.

S.B

[Paul Reed]

Did any American Indians serve in the US or Canadian forces?

One of the top scoring Canadian snipers in WW1 was 'Ducky' Norwest MM & Bar of 50th Bn Can Inf; he had 116 credited hits until he was killed by a German sniper on 18th August 1918. He is buried in Warvillers Churchyard Extension, on the Somme. He is mentioned frequently in Victor Wheeler's 'No Mans Land' which was reprinted by CEF books.

[Paul Reed]

I forget the name of the troop ship, but one was torpedoed or hit a mine in the Channel as she arrived carrying South African Labour Corps Troops. Something like 700 black South African troops were drowned.

It was the SS Mendi, which was hit by another ship in the fog, just off the Isle of Wight in February 1917 and sunk with the loss of more than 600 soldiers of the SANLC.

A good weblink for it is:

http://www.sahistory.org.za/pages/chronolo.../1917-02-21.htm

[paul guthrie]

Well Christine you win the prize, let me know when you will be in Kentucky to collect. Sitting Bull is on the money. And he was a private soldier.

[Terry]

My first post...hello all. A friend of mine was the co-author of the history of the 26th Canadian Battalion. He once told me that he had traced 29 Black and over 60 Native Indian members of the 26th. One of the photos in the book shows the battalion baseball team, and its star pitcher was Pte.Rankin Wheary, a Black Canadian. Wheary was killed in action with the unit, as were Norm and Rollie Ash, two Black brothers.

Possibly these numbers would be typical of what one could find in the average Canadian unit.

[Broznitsky]

I think the numbers of Black (Negro) Canadians and Native (Indian) Canadians would vary greatly, depending on the geographic location of the recruiting battalion, at least in the first half of the war. The 26th Btn was from New Brunswick, a province which has a lot of Black and Native people, as does Nova Scotia, another Maritime province. (Newfoundland does not have any Natives, due to a genocide in earlier centuries).

Battalions from Ontario and Quebec would probably have had similar numbers of Blacks and Natives to the Maritimes.

The Prairie Provinces and British Columbia would have had very little Black enlistment, due to the small numbers therein. Native enlistment from these provinces would be interesting to research (I think I shall !! . As the Canadian Prairie tribes were not many years removed from the effects of the American cavalry genocides in the US, I wonder how anxious they would have been to enlist for the King.

As Paul mentions, I do know that several Natives became expert snipers; one claimed 368 Germans.

Peter (now on another research trail . . . Blast this forum)

[Terry]

I have found a fourth Black Canadian who was KIA while with the 26th Battalion,CEF - Ralph Stoutley. Some time ago here in Canada there was a "movie of the week" made about No.2 Construction Battalion, the only Black unit in the CEF. It is unfortunate that 21st century political correctness was applied in the making of this movie.

Viewers were left with the impression that nobody had ever heard of this unit, and the producers of the movie were revealing all. My thought at the time was how many Canadians could name any Canadian unit which served in WW1? Here in the small province of New Brunswick today, few citizens have heard of the 26th Battalion, which lost over a thousand men killed. Is it much wonder that a construction unit, of whatever race, which lost perhaps half a dozen dead (all through illness I believe), would be remembered by the general public? This battalion certainly performed a valuable role, but no more so than the dozens of other construction, forestry, and railway units.

The end result of the movie may be that No.2 Construction Bn might be the only WW1 unit Canadians can name, with the possible exceptions of the PPCLI and the Royal 22e Regt..