James A Pratt III Posted 19 April , 2011 Share Posted 19 April , 2011 According to yahoo.news the CIA has released some secreat documents from WW I dealing with invisable ink. Just thought everyone would like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 19 April , 2011 Share Posted 19 April , 2011 You mean it hasn't appeared on Wikileaks before now, or are the CIA worried that it might be about to? NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 19 April , 2011 Share Posted 19 April , 2011 Nothing of much importance came out on Wikileaks. Mainly they showed that the U.S. is a responsible country that does the right things. Invisible ink is an old trade secret whose time has now passed, tradecraft-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 20 April , 2011 Share Posted 20 April , 2011 Can anyone help me with the CIA data base to actually find the documents This Washington Post Article says that they are available here http://www.foia.cia.gov/ And indeed the CIA front page refers one here. I cannot manage to conjure anything out of the database that gives the actual 6 articles. Can anyone find them there, or anywhere else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 20 April , 2011 Share Posted 20 April , 2011 Looks like the invisible ink is still doing its job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 20 April , 2011 Share Posted 20 April , 2011 If you don't have the secret password and handshake while wearing a white carnation and carrying the Spy's Gazette, rolled up under your left arm, you will not be able to find the files. You haven't seen me, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 20 April , 2011 Share Posted 20 April , 2011 Can anyone help me with the CIA data base to actually find the documents I can see links to all six at the bottom of the story on the CIA page given by the Wash Post warm it over a candle first cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 20 April , 2011 Share Posted 20 April , 2011 warm it over a candle first Thank you very much - worked a treat, and I got the fomulae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 20 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 20 April , 2011 This is O/T but the fellow who said nothing important came out of Wikileaks is dead wrong. It names the names of Afgans who cooperated with the US and its Allies and even gives the GPS locations of their homes. It also has what opposion leaders and disidents in various countries told US diplomats. One wonders how many of the above people are going to end up dead as a result of these leaks. Also in the future one wonders how many Americans and others are going to die because the locals in Afganistan and elsewhere are afraid to talk to US because they are worried about being exposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 20 April , 2011 Share Posted 20 April , 2011 Point taken, there was some of that. On the other hand most of the diplomatic message traffic was routine and ho-hum. The putting of all that information into a single database accessable to all of those with the right U.S. Government security clearances was the result of the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission. They felt that had U.S. Government entities shared their information without compartmenting it from each other we might have been better able to "connect the dots" on the 9/11 Arab conspiracy. The sharing of information trumped security and the old compartmented firewalls. It is indeed ironic that just when the U.S. Armed Forces are about to let gay people serve openly that a homosexual with an inadequate personality allegedly did this thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 21 April , 2011 Share Posted 21 April , 2011 Made it to the Daily Telegraph today Click NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 21 April , 2011 Share Posted 21 April , 2011 My interest in the invisible ink is actually serious. I have been researching Casement's Irish Brigade, And at the end of the war they became involved in the Germans inks as a means of communicating between Ireland and Germany. From one of the men's memoirs, the ink was inpregnated into a bootlace "Get an ordinary sheet of writing paper," he went on, "and write to any or each of the three addresses I will give you, an ordinary business letter would do, in common writing ink; When the ink is dry, start again, and get your secret ink this time. Now, using your secret ink, write your message in invisible writing (between the lines you have written in ordinary ink), using a clean steel pen for the purpose. In case any sign of the invisible writing might stay, you should crumple up the note paper a little and smooth it out again, or, better still, write your message first with the secret ink on ruled paper; mind you write between the lines. You can then place your sheet of notepaper and dry it again by placing between the sheets a piece of blotting paper. This process will remove any signs of the paper being written on. You can then write your business letter on the lines of the ruled paper in the ordinary way, and nobody can detect the invisible writing in between the lines. No other Government except the German Government can find a method for bringing to life this writing so you will be quite safe from detection by the British. "When you land in England you must try every method fair or foul to get to Dublin." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 21 April , 2011 Share Posted 21 April , 2011 In those pre-radio days, this was a deadly serious business. We might smile but men and women trusted their lives to these inks. I didn't think CIA existed at the time of the Great War or immediately after. I take it they inherited files from an older security organisation? In Corisande's quote there is another instance of the German fatal arrogance. The same blind faith in their superiority blinded them to the successes of allied codebreakers in both wars. I wonder if the Germans really did have the only means of revealing the ink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 21 April , 2011 Share Posted 21 April , 2011 I wonder if the Germans really did have the only means of revealing the ink? That was really my interest. The implication is that perhaps they did, as the CIA chose only to release this now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 21 April , 2011 Share Posted 21 April , 2011 In those pre-radio days, this was a deadly serious business. We might smile but men and women trusted their lives to these inks. I didn't think CIA existed at the time of the Great War or immediately after. I take it they inherited files from an older security organisation? In Corisande's quote there is another instance of the German fatal arrogance. The same blind faith in their superiority blinded them to the successes of allied codebreakers in both wars. I wonder if the Germans really did have the only means of revealing the ink? CIA is post WW2 having grown from the wartime OSS. My late aunt's husband was in both. Slightly off beam but here is a nice example of how faith in one's own technical superiority can blind one Because they had been unable to achieve it the Germans had great difficulty in believing that Britain had solved the problem of producing radar signals at even shorter wave lengths than had hitherto been considered possible, this gave airborne radar greatly improved ability to detect U-boats. Interrogators were seeking reasons for a suddenly increased detection rate by RAF patrol aircraft. A quick witted RAF prisoner under interrogation told them that a new device had been installed that allowed an operator in the aircraft to home in on radiation leaking from Metox equipment installed in U-boats. Metox was intended to provide early warning of radar signals from the older, longer wavelength airborne radar transmitters and when checks were made the Metox was in fact discovered to produce radiation. So instead of new devices being produced to detect and warn of the new shorter wave radar signals (that the Germans did not believe could exist) considerable effort was made to produce effective shielding for the Metox sets that were in any case obsolete. Failure to stem the rising detection rate merely served to prove how very sensitive the non existent radiation detectors must be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 21 April , 2011 Share Posted 21 April , 2011 I wonder if the Germans really did have the only means of revealing the ink? If it's the same ink as reported by the CIA, that formula is written in French and dated 1914 (though apparently only passed on to the Americans in 1918), which implies it was known early on by our allies cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 21 April , 2011 Share Posted 21 April , 2011 All revealed in the 1930s - see http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=a-IDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=RA1-PA76&ots=qeQwgm42_U&dq=%22secret%20ink%22%201914..1917&pg=RA1-PA74#v=onepage&q=%22secret%20ink%22%201914..1917&f=false Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 21 April , 2011 Share Posted 21 April , 2011 I didn't think CIA existed at the time of the Great War or immediately after. I take it they inherited files from an older security organisation? CIA was founded in 1947 or '48. It inherited many of the old espionage and tradecraft files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 21 April , 2011 Share Posted 21 April , 2011 CIA was founded in 1947 or '48. It inherited many of the old espionage and tradecraft files. From the OSS see my earlier post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 21 April , 2011 Share Posted 21 April , 2011 I think there was likely to be very little continuity between US intelligence in WW1 and the CIA A separate Military Intelligence Section was organized in May 1917 by Brig. Gen. Joseph E. Kuhn, Chief of the War College Division. Before then there had been the Military Intelligence Division whose main interests lay in Mexico and South America. At the end of WW1 the US Military Intelligence Section (MIS) had a staff of 282 officers and 948 civilians (The AEF had its own tactical intelligence organisation} In addition security and counter espionage was provided by the Corps of Intelligence Police (CIP) organized in August 1917 with 750 agents in France and 500 in the USA. CIP was effectively an arm of MIS. MIS was organised into MI-1 (Administration MI-2 (Foreign Intelligence) MI-3 (Counterespionage in Military Service) MI-4 (Counterespionage Among Civilian Population) MI-5 (Military Attaches) MI-6 (Translation) MI-7 (Graphic: Map and Photo) MI-8 (Cable and Telegraph: Code and Cipher) MI-9 (Field Intelligence: Field Training) MI-10 (Censorship) MI-11 (Passports and Port Control) MI-12 (Graft and Fraud) By the beginning of WW2 MIS had become War Department G2, and there were only 20 officers and 48 civilians left on staff and all the organisation, knowledge and experience had to be rebuilt almost from scratch. CIP had a massive 15 agents. Only in Cryptology had the USA retained any experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantowi Posted 21 April , 2011 Share Posted 21 April , 2011 This is O/T but the fellow who said nothing important came out of Wikileaks is dead wrong. It names the names of Afgans who cooperated with the US and its Allies and even gives the GPS locations of their homes. It also has what opposion leaders and disidents in various countries told US diplomats. One wonders how many of the above people are going to end up dead as a result of these leaks. But apart from that, "Mainly they showed that the U.S. is a responsible country that does the right things" Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 22 April , 2011 Share Posted 22 April , 2011 To add to my previous post the 'estimate' for MIS voted by Congress in 1917 was $1,000,000. As well as the numbers I have given there were a significant number of British and French intelligence officers seconded to assist in its initial organisation. These also appear to have assisted in the field as well. In addition British recruited agents and informants also seem to have been used (surprisingly including in Mexico) As well as intelligence work there are suggestions that what would today be called 'wet jobs' were carried out against German agents in neutral countries. By the end of the war the head of MIS was a Brigadier General Marlborough Churchill (one wonders if he was a distant relative of Winstons) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green_acorn Posted 22 April , 2011 Share Posted 22 April , 2011 I am surprised the MI6 secret ink formula published in the door stopper didn't get a mention in this thread. No enemy is going to find the ink a male MI6 Agent would be carrying and could readily restock, though I am told that they were directed to use it fresh as it goes of fairly quickly and could be quite wiffy when received at White Hall I gather the chap who discovered his ink coped a bit of flack from others in his office. Cheers, Hendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 22 April , 2011 Share Posted 22 April , 2011 Well C's name was Cumming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils d Posted 27 April , 2011 Share Posted 27 April , 2011 Can anyone help me with the CIA data base to actually find the documents This Washington Post Article says that they are available here http://www.foia.cia.gov/ And indeed the CIA front page refers one here. I cannot manage to conjure anything out of the database that gives the actual 6 articles. Can anyone find them there, or anywhere else l could tell you but then ld have to kill you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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