Nationality of Patient

[TEW]

I wonder if someone could ID the nationality of this man and maybe as a bonus suggest a unit.

It's a poor still from a film which is on the Pathe site, location given as 'Military Hospital'. Any further clues as to which hospital this is would be great. I don't think It's Seale-Hayne which I've recently discovered did not take any ANZAC troops. Although having said that, we have a hi-res image of a group of men at work and one seems to have a slouch hat (2nd man from left with hurdle on his back), any further takers on that one??

Thanks

TEW

[HERITAGE PLUS]

A New Zealander from his 'lemon squeezer' hat.

Dave

[sgt-maj]

The cap badge is a four pointed star... similar shape to the Victoria Cross... sitting upon title scroll. The only item that I can come up with is the '2nd ( South Canterbury ) Regiment'. Regiment served in Egypt, Gallipoli, and The Western Front.

[Khaki]

Two wild guesses of first man carrying hurdle?, if British maybe Royal Engineers, if New Zealander maybe Auckland Regiment.

The second man, New Zealander, no apparent regimental badges.

khaki

[FROGSMILE]

There was an ANZAC military hospital in Codford St Mary, near Warminster, on Salisbury Plain, Wiltshire. There is a graveyard with numerous Kiwis nearby. Number 3 New Zealand General Hospital was there: http://www.wiltshire-opc.org.uk/genealogy/index.php/parish-directory/item/287-codford-st-peter#lest-we-forget

[Khaki]

The cap badge is a four pointed star... similar shape to the Victoria Cross... sitting upon title scroll. The only item that I can come up with is the '2nd ( South Canterbury ) Regiment'. Regiment served in Egypt, Gallipoli, and The Western Front.

I agree, definitely 2nd South Canterbury,

khaki

[Grovetown]

There was an ANZAC military hospital in Codford St Mary, near Warminster, on Salisbury Plain, Wiltshire. There is a graveyard with numerous Kiwis nearby. Number 3 New Zealand General Hospital was there: http://www.wiltshire-opc.org.uk/genealogy/index.php/parish-directory/item/287-codford-st-peter#lest-we-forget

It's a lovely spot and well worth a visit.

And not to mention those NZ General Hospitals at Walton on Thames and Brockenhurst. Indeed, there are a 50% more NZEF burials at Brockenhurst than at Codford.

Cheers,

GT.

[TEW]

Thanks for the replies so far,

Anyone know if No. 3 New Zealand General Hospital Warminster kept chickens????

TEW

[FROGSMILE]

Thanks for the replies so far,

Anyone know if No. 3 New Zealand General Hospital Warminster kept chickens????

TEW

It was on the site of a hillside depression called 'the punch bowl' that was situated between several farms comprising livestock and arable production, so it is very likely that chickens were present. That said, the Brockenhurst hospital might well be similarly situated, I do not know.

A significant aspect of evidence will be the construct of the hospitals, the Codford site comprised hutted accommodation purpose built and of a standard design, as well as some tented facilities. Some other hospitals were more substantial civilian buildings co-opted for the war effort.

Another point is that No3 was for more fit men in the final stages of their convalescence before moving to a training camp. Most of those who died did so as a result of the Spanish Flu pandemic late in the war.

N.B. I lived there for a few years and have books on the local history in WW1.

[TEW]

Thanks,

Don't suppose someone could look at this image. I see a patient at Seale Hayne MH with a slouch hat. However, the Australian DGMS Col. Fetherston visited Seale Hayne in Dec 1918 and among other things the papers reported:

The Telegraph (Brisbane, Qld. : 1872 - 1947) Tuesday 10 December 1918 p7

As the result of General Fetherston's investigations at Seale Hayne and other similar military hospitals, it Is likely that Australian soldiers suffering from war neurosis will in future be treated in Great Britain before being returned to Australia.

So, it appears that up to Dec 1918 no Australian soldier had been treated for 'shell-shock' in the UK. So who is the man with the slouch hat if that's what it is?? Perhaps just unofficial civvy wear.

The hi-res images generally show summer time pastimes/occupations and as it was only open from April 1918 to June 1919 I'd think they are Summer 1918 images.

Thanks

TEW

[FROGSMILE]

Thanks,

Don't suppose someone could look at this image. I see a patient at Seale Hayne MH with a slouch hat. However, the Australian DGMS Col. Fetherston visited Seale Hayne in Dec 1918 and among other things the papers reported:

The Telegraph (Brisbane, Qld. : 1872 - 1947) Tuesday 10 December 1918 p7

As the result of General Fetherston's investigations at Seale Hayne and other similar military hospitals, it Is likely that Australian soldiers suffering from war neurosis will in future be treated in Great Britain before being returned to Australia.

So, it appears that up to Dec 1918 no Australian soldier had been treated for 'shell-shock' in the UK. So who is the man with the slouch hat if that's what it is?? Perhaps just unofficial civvy wear.

The hi-res images generally show summer time pastimes/occupations and as it was only open from April 1918 to June 1919 I'd think they are Summer 1918 images.

Thanks

It's not a slouch hat TEW, but another Kiwi lemon squeezer. Also, knowing the area as I do, that background could easily be Wiltshire in the Warminster, and Codford area. The physical work suggests men almost fully fit again.

Another possibility for the photo is Bulford, which had similar hills and was the location of an NZ reinforcement and training centre.

[TEW]

Frogsmile,

Well that's intriguing, Kiwis being treated there but not Australians. Had assumed they'd all come under ANZACs.

Thanks

TEW

[FROGSMILE]

Frogsmile,

Well that's intriguing, Kiwis being treated there but not Australians. Had assumed they'd all come under ANZACs.

Thanks

TEW

??? I am not suggesting that Australians were not treated in Codford or any other ANZAC hospital. You asked about the photo and called the headwear a 'slouch hat', I was merely responding to your query to point out that it is in fact a Kiwi lemon squeezer hat.

[TEW]

Yes, I was being specific about the photo and did assume it was a slouch hat and am glad to find out it's a lemon squeezer (new term to me). Also, when I said ​being treated there I meant Seale Hayne and specifically for shell shock.

Thanks again

TEW

[FROGSMILE]

Yes, I was being specific about the photo and did assume it was a slouch hat and am glad to find out it's a lemon squeezer (new term to me). Also, when I said ​being treated there I meant Seale Hayne and specifically for shell shock.

Thanks again

TEW

Glad to help TEW.

[Moonraker]

The background of the "hurdles" photo reminds me a little of Codford and a little less of Bulford. Definitely not Brockenhurst, and I would be a little surprised if it was Seale Hayne. (I know the topography of all four locations.) Most photographs of Codford Hospital show a large copse behind the huts. But farm work might have been carried out some way from the hospital, and by 1917 many army camps in Britain had large vegetable and farming plots - their output was even recorded in Australian war diaries. I don't think there were any such plots below Beacon Hill (the hillside behind Sling and Bulford camps.)

New Zealanders also convalesced in

Torquay

another locality that I know well, and the "hurdles" photograph was definitely not taken there.

Two more Seale Hayne clips

here

and

here

There may be others.

Moonraker

[FROGSMILE]

The background of the "hurdles" photo reminds me a little of Codford and a little less of Bulford. Definitely not Brockenhurst, and I would be a little surprised if it was Seale Hayne. (I know the topography of all four locations.) Most photographs of Codford Hospital show a large copse behind the huts. But farm work might have been carried out some way from the hospital, and by 1917 many army camps in Britain had large vegetable and farming plots - their output was even recorded in Australian war diaries. I don't think there were any such plots below Beacon Hill (the hillside behind Sling and Bulford camps.)

New Zealanders also convalesced in

Torquay

another locality that I know well, and the "hurdles" photograph was definitely not taken there.

Two more Seale Hayne clips

here

and

here

There may be others.

Moonraker

I entirely concur that the photo looks more like Codford and the copse still stands in the 'punch bowl' there. Funnily enough I now live near Torquay and was interested to learn where the Kiwis were based.

[Sepoy]

Australians and New Zealanders were treated at Codford St Mary and some poor souls are buried in the local Churchyard. From memory (it is a while since I was in the area) there is an Australian Rising Sun badge carved into the hillside close to the village.

Sepoy

[Khaki]

Very nice photographs

khaki

[TEW]

Sorry, perhaps I've confused things by asking about two different things (linked in my mind) in one post.

In post#1, I found some film footage of what turned out to be Kiwis feeding chickens and collecting eggs. As it was tagged on the Pathe site as 'Poultry farming on military hospital' I watched it to see which hospital it was as the Seale Hayne films also show chicken feeding patients.

As far as the Hurdle picture goes it is definitely Seale Hayne, college in background shot taken down on the road leading off main road. One of a set of photos that was found in the college after the agricultural staff left and before Plymouth Uni took it over. Some of the images are of such good quality they maybe press shots http://seale-hayne.com/?page_id=1152

I also discovered that the Australian DGMS Col. Fetherston on seeing Seale Hayne more or less said that no Australians were treated in the UK for shell shock. I've assumed for some time the main the hurdle shot was Australian and now been put right.

Lastly, the 5 films on Pathe of Netley/Seale Hayne, I have seen these and have identified some of the patients and been in contact with descendants. Still trying to ID most of the men and in some cases the locations (Some complex editing going on and at least one location that is neither of the two hospitals).

There are actually snippets of the Netley/Seale Hayne films on Pathe but not identified as such, so far I've only found duplicates of known footage but I've been spending hours watching footage hoping to find footage that may have been mid-described. Try searching on Pathe for 'Blackberry Raid'

There are publications that have reproduced still photos from the Netley/Seale Hayne films and I can state they are not of men shown in any of the films on Pathe.

Thanks for bearing with me through all that!!

TEW

[FROGSMILE]

Australians and New Zealanders were treated at Codford St Mary and some poor souls are buried in the local Churchyard. From memory (it is a while since I was in the area) there is an Australian Rising Sun badge carved into the hillside close to the village.

Sepoy

Yes, that's right Sepoy, the chalk carving is still there on the hillside. My daughter lives in Codford and I have often taken her children to lay flowers at the graves. They are very well kept.