Correct book title urgently needed

[Tony Lund]

I recently ordered a book from the library which I guessed was entitled “The History of the 49th West Riding Division.” I now have a query from the library about the tittle, basically they need more details. I know that a history of this division exists, any information about it would be helpful.

Thanks, Tony.

[Kate Wills]

They were Territorials, so perhaps Territorial is included in the title.

[Stephen Nulty]

Tony

Is this the one?

http://www.naval-military-press.co.uk/books/titles/6588.htm

[Kate Wills]

This is the British Library listing:

ENGLAND. Army. 49th Division.:

The History of the 62nd [amalgamated with the 49th] - West Riding - Division, 1914-1919. By Everard Wyrall, etc..

2 vol. John Lane: London, [1924-25.]

[Tony Lund]

The 49th West Riding Division are the first line territorials and the 62nd West Riding Division are the second line territorials. So far as I am aware they functioned completely independently from each other, although some disbanded battalions of the 49th did send men to battalions of the same regiments in the 62nd during the 1918 reorganisation.

The bit about the History of the 62nd West Riding Division, 2 volumes, by Everard Wyrall, is interesting, I know the local library have that book. I have never seen it because it is tucked away in a warehouse out of town, and also because the first line men were in action first, so I intended to look at the history of the 49th first, and the 62nd later. I shall get them to resurrect it and have a good look at both volumes.

I shall be calling at the library tomorrow.

Thanks,

Tony.

[Kate Wills]

Tony,

You need to see Vol I.

The narrative of Volume II begins on 25 August 1918, and continues onto Armitice and the unveiling of the 62nd Divisional memorial at Havrincourt in 1922

[Aurel Sercu]

The one I know and have used a couple of times (in the Ypres Documentation Centre) is :

Laurie MAGNUS, The West Riding Territorials in the Great War, London, 1920.

[49 Div. - 62 Div.]

Aurel

[MartinWills]

I think the Laurie Magnus volume should be your first port of call.

Martin

[Tony Lund]

Thanks, the reference library has a copy of the West Riding Territorials in the Great War, it does not have much on the period I am looking at. I hope it isn’t all there is!

Tony.

[Tony Lund]

I have ordered the History of the 62nd West Riding Division and I should get to see it next week. In the meantime does anyone have an opinion on Everard Wyrall? He seems to have written quite a lot about Yorkshire units.

Tony.

[Simon R]

Leeds Library has quite a few of these.

I'd use Bales, P. G. 1920 4th Btn. DWR, but you've prob. seen it already.

Don't know about Wyrall, but didn't Magnus serve WWI? Wasn't he Capt?

Hope you've managed to make some headway re: 3rd Sept.

Simon.

[Tony Lund]

I have the History of the 1st 4th Battalion Duke of Wellington’s West Riding Regiment on loan just now. It has been useful and the maps are good of the Pope’s Nose area.

I noticed the forward to the West Riding Territorials in the Great War was written by Sir Douglas Haig, and it was this that made me think about whether military men would be willing to write accounts that might upset their former commanders. I have always assumed these men were all ex officers.

Re 3rd September, I am going to wait for this book, it should not take too long to travel a mile or so from the warehouse to the library. Interesting that the artillery observers report 147th Infantry Brigade men were in the German Support Line.

Tony.

[Terry_Reeves]

Tony

Richard Everard Wyrall was a professional author, journalist and military historian who was born in 1878. He rarely used his first name. He had a fair amount of military service behind him, serving in the Boer War, WW1 (as a 2Lt in the ASC) and in the Third Afghan War, 1919. He owned and edited the first photographic magazine to be published in South Africa and also worked as a sub-editor in Fleet St. He had a strong social conscience and voluntarily entered workhouses, broke stones and picked oakum, in order to see at first hand, how the State treated the very poor. The results of his investigations were published in the Daily Express in 1908. He also carried out investigative work into charitable organisations. One of his hobbies was study of the Great War.

Amongst his military publications were the following:

Europe in Arms; A Concise History of the War

History of the Second Division, 1914-18, 2 Vols

History of the West Yorkshire Regt,1914-18, 2 Vols

History of the 62nd (West Riding) Division, 1914-18, 2 Vols

History of the Somerset Light Infantry, 1914-18

History of the Middlesex Regt, 1914-1919

History of the 30th (Howitzer) Battery RFA, 1914-1918

The East Yorkshire Regt in the Great War, 1914-1918

The Fiftieth Division 1914-19

The History of the King's Liverpool Regt 1914-19

The History of the 20th Light Division.

As far as I'm aware, all the above were commissioned by the units involved, so he clearly had a good reputation in this field. He died in January 1933.

Terry Reeves

[Tony Lund]

Thanks again, that is just what I needed to know. Everard Wyrall’s History of the 62nd Division is one that I am very shortly going to have to depend on a lot, and the History of the West Yorkshire Regiment is occasionally useful. It is good to know that the man has a good reputation. I had assumed he was a Yorkshire officer.

Tony.

[Kate Wills]

Wyrall’s History of the 62nd Division is one that I am very shortly going to have to depend on a lot,

Tony.

Do you have a research project on the go, Tony?

[Tony Lund]

I decided to answer a child’s questions about what happened to the men named on a war memorial, where did they live and where are they buried etc. I have now found myself working my way through the Holmfirth Express for the war years, and following the different groups through the war. I am trying to finish off 1916 just now, so the appearance of the second line territorials at the front is just around the corner. Holmfirth’s second line territorials were in the 62nd Division, hence my interest. But I need to clear up the events of 3rd September 1916 and the 49th Division first.

Tony.

[Tony Lund]

The library cannot find their copy of the 62nd West Riding Division so I am going to have to wait for a copy from the inter-library loan service. But at least the tittle and author of this book are known.

Tony.

[Tony Lund]

The library tells me that there is a book on its way for me. The tittle is something like “The History of the 49th West Riding and Midlands Territorial Division”, I am still waiting for the 62nd West Riding Division.

Tony.

[bernardmcilwaine]

tony,i have a book called, CRAVENS PART IN THE GREAT WAR,it has nominal rolls for the 1/6th+2/6th west riding regt,it could be of help to you in your project,i think naval and military press still have copies,but if you need owt give us a shout,i,ll be glad to help,best of luck,bernard

[Simon R]

CPITGW also has extensive portrait photos of many casualties from those btns. plus biographical info on them and also casualties from Skipton area especially. Officer casualty info. v. detailed.

n.b. each copy of 'Cravens' was individually presented to members of 6th btns. so are highly personalised - name and rank in m.s. is in front cover.

[Kevin O'Marah]

I'm also interested in 1/4 hallamshire have recieved this from New Zealand this morning, so try these books if available.

Douglas Percy Grant The 1/4th(Hallamshire)Battn. Y&L Regiment 1914-1919(Arden Press 1931).

The Third Yprees Passchendaele:the day-by-day account by Chris McCarthy

The NZ Division 1916-1919 by Col.H.Stewart.

Have not tried any of these so hope it helps.

Kevin

[Tony Lund]

The book I have been waiting for has arrived, it is only 48 pages long, and it is full of far away places with strange sounding names like Arnhem, and Iceland. The full title is:

“A Short History of the 49th West Riding and Midlands Infantry Division Territorial Army” by Lt-Col F. K. Hughes RAEC

I am still waiting for the History of the 62nd West Riding Division.

Tony.

[CROONAERT]

n.b. each copy of 'Cravens' was individually presented to members of 6th btns. so are highly personalised - name and rank in m.s. is in front cover.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not just to the members of the 6th Bns but to all from the area. (Mine was presented to the "representatives of the late William Edward Anderson,S.B.R" who went down on the "Rohilla" off Whitby on 30th October 1914).

There were two different types of frontplates - those to the person who served (if he survived), and those to the representatives of those who didn't. I'd collected 14 or 15 of these volumes upto about 10 years ago (when you could get them for a couple of quid!) named to various casualties and non-casualties, but I was given an "offer I couldn't refuse" for them. I wish I did, now!

Dave.

[Simon R]

14-15??!! What a collection!

Yes, the Rohilla material is interesting, there's a thread on it somewhere within the forum.

[Tony Lund]

The History of the 62nd West Riding Division arrived today, it is a very useful book but it does not mention the 49th West Riding Division. I think the West Riding Territorials in the Great War is the closest I am going to get to a 49th Division history for the Great War, unless somebody out there cares to write one.

“A Short History of the 49th West Riding and Midlands Infantry Division Territorial Army” is a Second World War history hence the change of name to included the Midlands.

Tony.