Another rank question.

[1st east yorks]

Hello,

Yet another question regarding rank.When reading i often come across Brigade ranks eg Brigade Major.

A Major at Battalion level can sometimes be in charge of a company(like a Captain,if i understand correctly) and is second in command of the battalion.A Brigadier General is in charge of a Brigade which is made up of 4 Battalions each commanded by a Lt Colonel.I assumed that the 4 Lt Colonels answered directly to the Brigadier General.Where do the Brigade ranks fit into the overall scheme?How do you achieve these ranks?I assumed promotion from Lt Colonel led directly to Brigadier General!!!!.

thanks,

Anthony.

[stevem49]

The Brigade majors I have researched did the admin bits in the brigade, so no doubt the title is a throw back to ancient times!

sm

[1st east yorks]

Steve,

Thanks for your reply.Does that mean they did not rank above the Lt Colonels?And the Lt Colonels answered directly to the Brigadier General as i thought?

Thanks,

Anthony.

[stevem49]

Yes it was a Brigade post and not a regimental/battalion one. You also see Town major for officers doing the military admin and many were Lts or Captains!

[1st east yorks]

Thanks Steve,

Anthony.

[PhilB]

I get the impression that appointment as Brigade Major was a sign that a man was well thought of and considered to be a rising man. It gave him a taste of staff work from which he could rise through the staff or regimentally. Town major seems somewhat different, being a post for possibly an older or wounded man and not a stepping stone to higher things.

[stevem49]

I agree - also officers that commanders wanted rid of for various reasons!

s

[PhilB]

For town major - not brigade major! That`s what I thought but didn`t want to disparage town majors!

[stevem49]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Oct 17 2008, 05:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For town major - not brigade major! That`s what I thought but didn`t want to disparage town majors!

Of course as a Brigade Major would be on the way up, whilst the other was on the way ....

[Ron Clifton]

Brigade Major was an appointment, and he was the senior staff officer to the Brig-Gen. There was also a Staff Captain. He was junior to the Bn commanders but, as a staff officer, could give them orders in the BG's name. There is also at least one case on the Somme where, the BG and all four Bn lt-cols having been killed, the BM led the brigade out of action.

By 1918 most infantry Brigade Majors were in fact captains.

"Major of Brigade" as a title dates back at least to Wellington's time, when they were usually majors.

Town Major is, I think, an even older title and denotes an officer, often a wounded or "dud" one, who could be trusted to run the admin and housekeeping of the soldiers in a large to medium-sized town - Ypres or Bethune, for instance. The rank varied with the size of the town. Think Colonel von Strohm in Allo Allo and you will get the idea.

Ron

[JustinWilley]

Brigade Major was an appointment, and he was the senior staff officer to the Brig-Gen. There was also a Staff Captain. He was junior to the Bn commanders but, as a staff officer, could give them orders in the BG's name. There is also at least one case on the Somme where, the BG and all four Bn lt-cols having been killed, the BM led the brigade out of action.

Very much like the adjutant of a regt / bn. In recent years the Brigade Major appointment has been renamed "Chief of Staff", which sounds much grander, reflects US usage and the rather larger staff that brigades now have, but does properly describe the function. Can be anything from Capt - Lt Col depending on how important / taxing the brigade's role is.

Justin

[nigelfe]

Basically any BG in a command position had a BM as his principal staff officer. For the divisional artillery he was called BMRA, although during WW1 the status of 'staff officers' outside the General Staff was a contentious issue. Basically a BM was a General Staff Officer Grade 2 (ie a major), and GSO2s existed in all HQS, and the War Office in vatious position eg GSO2 Operations, GSO2 SD, GSO 2 Intellignece. At brigade level that he was the GSO 2 Ops and the main man, hence given the title of BM. His principal responsibility was controlling operations on behalf of his commander (execution of the commanders plan) not to mention the staff work of writing the plan according to the directions the commander gave him, with the necessary detail. The UK staff system made the principal operations staff officer the 'first among equals' in any HQ. As everyone knows and fully understands, the A and Q staffs used different titles, not GSO.

Town majors may have been medically downgraded, but often it was an age matter, eg regular reservists, who could be up to 55, recalled to duty.

[1st east yorks]

Thanks for all your replies.

Anthony.

[Desdichado]

Town Major is, I think, an even older title and denotes an officer, often a wounded or "dud" one, who could be trusted to run the admin and housekeeping of the soldiers in a large to medium-sized town - Ypres or Bethune, for instance. The rank varied with the size of the town. Think Colonel von Strohm in Allo Allo and you will get the idea.

Ron

Case in point. The Town Major of Ypres duirng the withdrawal in April 1915 was one Lieutenant-Colonel Hankey.

[PhilB]

It sounds as if Town Major was a fairly comfortable job. Were his duties at all onerous?

[Desdichado]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Oct 18 2008, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It sounds as if Town Major was a fairly comfortable job. Were his duties at all onerous?

From what I can gather, his were mostly administration duties. He was certainly involved in the withdrawal from Ypres but I don't think he had a lot of autonomy as the following extract from his diary illustrates:

"Severe bombardment started about 5.30pm and continued without a pause till I left the following day at 10.30am. During the night I left my office in the Rue Carlton and went to the Cloisters north of the Town Hall where I found about 25 A.S.C. of the 28th Division, and put them under my orders. I wired for instructions from the 5th Corps Headquarters as to my withdrawal. I advised the Belgian Military Governor to leave the town. All his Travailleurs had left the town, as well as his Gendarmerie. All the road Guards had been withdrawn. Inhabitants were leaving in a steady stream."

Colonel Hankey actually departed on the last train out which left at about midnight on that date which, I believe, was April 30th.

[PhilB]

Possibly the Town Majorship of Ypres wasn`t quite typical?

[Desdichado]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Oct 18 2008, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Possibly the Town Majorship of Ypres wasn`t quite typical?

It certainly wasn't at that time.

[charlesmessenger]

The Town Major was essentially the link between the British Army and the local civil authorities. As such he organised the billeting of troops and oversaw their behaviour when off duty in the town.

Charles M

[Ron Clifton]

Case in point. The Town Major of Ypres duirng the withdrawal in April 1915 was one Lieutenant-Colonel Hankey.

Was he any relation to "the" Lt-Colonel (RM) M P A Hankey who was Secretary to the Committee of Imperial Defence and later Cabinet Secretary under Lloyd George?

Ron

[truthergw]

Was he any relation to "the" Lt-Colonel (RM) M P A Hankey who was Secretary to the Committee of Imperial Defence and later Cabinet Secretary under Lloyd George?

Ron

I can find no mention of Lt Col Hankey in Lord Hankey's biography. He had a brother but he was killed in the Boer War, at Paardeburg. Possibly a cousin?

[Pete1052]

Click here for more information on the "town major" or "camp commandant."

[Desdichado]

I can find no mention of Lt Col Hankey in Lord Hankey's biography. He had a brother but he was killed in the Boer War, at Paardeburg. Possibly a cousin?

The quote from Col. Hankey is taken from the War Diary of the 5th Army Corps, DA & QMG, April 1915. The NA reference number is WO95/4048. That should enable you to get a fix on him.

[Spud Trevor]

I was interested to read about the duties of a Town Major. I did a little research into a Canadian Major William Yeates Hunter who was the Town Major of Poperinghe.

He seems to fit the above description in many ways. He was aged 50, a Boer war veteran of 13 years service and a Professor of English in Canada prior to ww1.

However, it can't have been such a cushy number in his case, because he was killed in Action in September 1918. He is buried in Reninghelst. Unfortunately his papers do not record any detail regarding the circumstances. The CWGC describe him as been seconded to the War Office.

Regards,

Spud

[Ron Clifton]

Bearing in mind the crucial strategic importance of both Ypres and Poperinghe, the job of Town Major at either would not have been a sinecure, even if they stayed in their offices all day!

It is possible that he went up to the front line with a draft, as the only available officer, or he may have been killed by a bomb from an aircraft, or a particularly fluke long-distance heavy shell.

Ron