Nick Thornicroft Posted 15 August , 2014 Share Posted 15 August , 2014 In his autobiography, 'Rifleman & Hussar', Col. P.S. Marling, VC, writes under the date 15th December 1914: 'The C.O. of the regiment told me that a certain General sent his son, who was on his Staff, up into the trenches one night with a note to the C.O., to say that he must take particular care of him... When the General sent his dispatch in for awards for those who had done good service, he said "I particularly recommend Lieutenant ---------, my son, for conspicuous gallantry and bravery in the trenches on the night of...." The son got a Military Cross in the next Gazette. This was a proper ramp.' Contenders, anyone? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissparrow Posted 15 August , 2014 Share Posted 15 August , 2014 Can anyone name the general and his son? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midshipmanrayley Posted 15 August , 2014 Share Posted 15 August , 2014 I believe the Military Cross was not instituted until 28th December 1914. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thornicroft Posted 15 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 15 August , 2014 Good point. Maybe it was a DSO he was referring to? Col. Marling was invalided away from the Front shortly afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 15 August , 2014 Share Posted 15 August , 2014 Percy Rankin Macdonald Marling??10/Glouc R, RACB MIC indictates 'BWM & Vict Emblems??) Arrived in France 29/8/1916. He and Col. PSVC Marling are the only Officer Marlings with MIC. LG issue 29392 of 3/12/1915 does not ID Percy with MC TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 15 August , 2014 Admin Share Posted 15 August , 2014 More like a contender for a classic 'urban legend' i.e. indeterminate source,(someone told me); cannot be verified (a certain General) and has a hidden message, i.e. seeks to diminish recognition of others or self deprecating as to the value of awards. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 17 August , 2014 Share Posted 17 August , 2014 When the MC was instituted, there were a number of awards made for actions before that date, including at least one where the recipient was already dead and would not, technically, have qualified for the award otherwise. There is also a legendary story about a brigadier or battalion CO who put in a recommendation for an award to his ADC/adjutant: "He has never failed to accompany me on the most dangerous visits to forward positions." Italics are mine! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 17 August , 2014 Share Posted 17 August , 2014 I think the key words are "The CO of the regiment told me" - he is repeating a story someone else told him. He did not have first hand knowledge nor is there any evidence that the CO had direct knowledge - he might have been repeating what someone told him. The phrase "a certain general" is also redolent of a tale passed around. Hearsay at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 17 August , 2014 Share Posted 17 August , 2014 Percy Rankin Macdonald Marling?? 10/Glouc R, RACB MIC indictates 'BWM & Vict Emblems??) Arrived in France 29/8/1916. He and Col. PSVC Marling are the only Officer Marlings with MIC. LG issue 29392 of 3/12/1915 does not ID Percy with MC TEW As we don't know the name of the General alleged to have done this - this is irrelevant. Col Marling is relaying the story - it's not his son that's being referred to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 17 August , 2014 Share Posted 17 August , 2014 Wasn't the Prince of Wales (later Duke of Windsor) much embarrassed about being awarded an MC and being instructed to wear the ribbon? R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 17 August , 2014 Share Posted 17 August , 2014 Wasn't the Prince of Wales (later Duke of Windsor) much embarrassed about being awarded an MC and being instructed to wear the ribbon? R. And by many accounts a man difficult to embarrass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 17 August , 2014 Share Posted 17 August , 2014 And the problem about being difficult to embarrass is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 17 August , 2014 Share Posted 17 August , 2014 And the problem about being difficult to embarrass is? who mentioned a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 21 August , 2014 Share Posted 21 August , 2014 This from 'The Mask of Merlin' (1963), a "critical study" of Lloyd George by Donald McCormick: "While King George II could, by the kind of brilliant inspiration that comes to kings more easily than politicians, bestow a knighthood on a dragoon who had cut his way through the French cavalry, two centuries later Raymond Asquith was bitterly complaining in World War II [sic] that, when it came to decorations, it was always found that the Dukes were the bravest men and after them the Marquises." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 21 August , 2014 Share Posted 21 August , 2014 I am constantly surprised when I ready these officers citations for the Military Cross, for basically, doing their job. N.C.O's and Privates who won a Military Medal had to have done something extraordinarily selfish and heroic for receive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaroleHope Posted 21 August , 2014 Share Posted 21 August , 2014 Apropos of nothing in particular:- The Reverend Pat Leonard wrote home on 22nd November 1916: “What on earth did (he) mean by giving me the DSO? Helping the Doctor and carrying in stretchers is what every Chaplain does. You will see that quite a few Chaplains have got Military Crosses for doing much more than I did.” Leonard, John and Leonard-Johnson, Philip The Fighting Padre, Letters from the Trenches 1915-1918 of Pat Leonard DSO, Pen & Sword Military, 2010 The DSO was instituted in 1886: “The intention was to create an award for Officers in time of War for distinguished service where the award of the Victoria Cross was not appropriate. During 1914 to 1916, a number of awards were made to men who had not come under fire. Consequently, from 1st January 1917, instructions were given that the award should be restricted to ‘The Fighting Services’.” Williamson, Howard, The Great War Collectors Companion, privately published by Anne Williamson, 2011 Carole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 21 August , 2014 Share Posted 21 August , 2014 The DSO was for distinguished service in war and not necessarily for bravery. The same applied to the MC (until 1931) and DCM. Indeed, during WW1 only the MM was specifically for 'bravery in the field'. Until the Order of the British Empire was instituted in June 1917 there were few other ways of recognising outstanding service by more junior officers and other ranks than by making these awards. Hence DSOs and MCs for staff officers and DCMs for chief clerks and master bakers. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 22 August , 2014 Share Posted 22 August , 2014 I am constantly surprised when I ready these officers citations for the Military Cross, for basically, doing their job. N.C.O's and Privates who won a Military Medal had to have done something extraordinarily selfish and heroic for receive it. I think (at least hope) you mean selfless not selfish See Charles Messengers post before too many splenetic attacks on MC awards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 22 August , 2014 Share Posted 22 August , 2014 Sorry Centurian, I did mean selfless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 22 August , 2014 Share Posted 22 August , 2014 The DSO was for distinguished service in war and not necessarily for bravery. The same applied to the MC (until 1931) and DCM. Indeed, during WW1 only the MM was specifically for 'bravery in the field'. Until the Order of the British Empire was instituted in June 1917 there were few other ways of recognising outstanding service by more junior officers and other ranks than by making these awards. Hence DSOs and MCs for staff officers and DCMs for chief clerks and master bakers. Charles M Charles I'm grateful for this information having followed the debate in the thread. I have a footballer called Frank Boundy who was awarded the MC for organising the wiring of the front line near Hulluch on the Loos battlefield in late November 1916. I was given lots of information on Frank by Ken Lees (also of this parish) and remember reading the citation and having a similar reaction to Tom; to me it appeared that he was just doing his job. Having followed the thread and digested your explanation I went back to the citation and it all fell into place. I now know the ground a bit better than when I first read it and understand better how difficult the area was (one of my other footballers was killed in the area a couple of weeks later). The phrase 'coolness under fire' comes to mind now I read the citation back; many thanks to everyone for their contributions. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney5042 Posted 24 August , 2014 Share Posted 24 August , 2014 (edited) The DSO was for distinguished service in war and not necessarily for bravery. The same applied to the MC (until 1931) and DCM. Indeed, during WW1 only the MM was specifically for 'bravery in the field'. Until the Order of the British Empire was instituted in June 1917 there were few other ways of recognising outstanding service by more junior officers and other ranks than by making these awards. Hence DSOs and MCs for staff officers and DCMs for chief clerks and master bakers. Charles M I once wrote an article with an analysis of World War I DSO citations, both from the London Gazette and from numerous regimental sources. The largest number were awarded for what I called "Combat Command", basically a Commanding Officer leading his unit under difficult circumstances against the enemy. For example: Robert Edward Rising, Capt., 1st Battn. The Gloucester Regt. Went up with support and conspicuously controlled the defence of the battalion's trenches against a determined attack by the enemy. But for this stout defence the line must have been penetrated. About 2% were for what I called Meritorious Service, such as: Richard Banastre Crosse, Lieut., 2nd Battn. The Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry. As Adjutant, for consistent good work during the campaign. Most were awarded to Majors and Lieutenant Colonels. DSOs to generals, full colonels, lieutenants, and 2nd lieutenants were unusual, roughly 2% each. Edited 24 August , 2014 by barney5042 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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