Desmond7 Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 (edited) Anyone else feel slightly 'let down' by 'Tommy'? Great start but found interest flagging. All fine and dandy but I expected more. Was the book really aimed at the 'casual' WW1/history reader? Hesitate to post this as I have a fair deal of respect for the Prof. but I felt a lot was regurgitated? I am now heading for my dug-out ... Perhaps I was spoiled by Redcoat because in that volume I was reading/discovering lots of info about the life of a British soldier pre 20th century. Des Edited 3 January , 2005 by Desmond7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoch beard Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 with prof. holmes reputation i expected a much better book,he seems to be trawling the same ground as many before with very little new material. maybe he was on a publishers deadline? enoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandsonMichael Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 Hi Des, I'll join you in your dugout then...... After all the pre publicity on the Forum I was convinced it was a 'must' . Not any more. Some interesting passages and facts to be found but overall a lot of well known info from other sources. Also, I found the book was written in a rather chaotic manner, going back and forth in time...all the time... I was misled into believing the emphasis was on the experiences of the ordinary British soldier. The amount of info about and qoutes from officers, etc. belies this in my view. Is your dugout fortified with concrete? Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 I can only speak for his book 'Acts of War'. It was well organised, covering the breadth of material in a systematic way. None of the information, however, was new if you have read widely. For readers new to the subject, then I think the book is a very good introduction. Perhaps the same applies here? Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 Also, I found the book was written in a rather chaotic manner, going back and forth in time...all the time... Our messages obviously crossed paths. This is not the same problem as I experienced. It would be consistent with a deadline looming. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 3 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2005 I found 'Acts of War' a good read . As Robert says, a fair 'whack' of the info/anecdotes etc have appeared elsewhere, but a good compilation all-round. I remember buying 'Soldiers' - the dual work by Keegan/Holmes? A good 'catch-all' on things military though the ages. Des Grandson, you're welcome to join me ... and I agree, wanted more on the ordinary 'Tommy' of the title. Especially a lengthier look at the pre-war regulars and reservists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 Redcoat and Wellington were much better than Tommy but Tommy was still a whole lot better than some other peoples offerings. Move over Des and Ench, one more coming in! Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 I am really surprised at these reviews. I have read a few other threads that speak of what a great work 'Tommy' is. What was the biggest flaw, readibility, organization, or the lack of new information or insight? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Maier Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 I don’t feel in the least let down by Tommy. For me it joins Winter’s Death’s Men as the first place to look for the experience of the ordinary soldier. At 700-plus pages, with 48 pages of closely printed references, bibliography and acknowledgements, it is hardly a pot-boiler. Holmes’ sources include the private papers of 66 people, together with a trawl of 13 military manuals and runs of 18 trench newspapers that most of us will never see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carninyj Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 I'm no expert on all the WW1 literature that is doing the rounds, indeed on any form of literature, but I must say that I found 'Tommy' well-written and informative, enjoyable reading over the holiday. Regards Carninyj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 I didn't say it was not well written but it was not as well written as previous Holme' books. He is still an exeptional author and TV programme presenter. That said, I'm still down 't dugout!! Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDick Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 It often depends at whom the book is aimed. I would assume - not having got around to read it - that much of it would have to appeal to the casual reader rather than just the ardent 1WW buff, so there would be a fair amount of repitition. Obviously there is room for both in such a tome. It must also been borne in mind that many Forumites will have a near-encyclopaedic knowledge of certain aspects of the War, so it is hardly surprising that when the book encroaches into their field of study it will be predictable and drawn from known sources - and perhaps even on occasion erroneous. Secondly, if it is well-written. That seems to a major problem with non-fiction works; particularly those written in the past. One can be a top-notch historian, but if the work is badly written or else not engaging, it will be lost on the reader and consequently the message will be lost. I have only recently read Redcoat and found it to be immensely enjoyable, well written and informative. Conversely, I gave up on Wellington after the first couple of chapters - even though I'd seen the excellent TV series - principally because I found it tiresome to read. (To many commas breaking up the flow of the work, IIRC: as simple as that.) Still, one can't criticise a chap who goes around northern Europe dressed like Foggy Dewhurst from Last of the Summer Wine and singlehandedly - with the aid of a borrowed sword and hat and a fixed grimace - recreates a cavalry charge. What a guy! Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrB Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 I think that the reason for writing the book must be taken into account. "Redcoat" was a very good primer for those who had not read anything about the red-coated soldier. "Tommy" was a good primer for those whose interest in WWI is only in fledge. I believe they were not meant to be the alpha and omega of the subject, but only an introduction to them. I, for one, was somewhat bored by both as I felt I had a reasonably good grasp on those subjects beforehand. From the above replies, it appears that I am not alone with this feeling. "Acts of War," on the other hand, was one I used extensively in teaching Combat Psychology in the Navy. Combat psychology is a difficult subject to present and very esoteric to say the least. Holmes made it enjoyable. I still believe he is one of the foremost you have in the UK writing military history. 'Nuff from a Yank..... DrB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike10764 Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 Still, one can't criticise a chap who goes around northern Europe dressed like Foggy Dewhurst from Last of the Summer Wine and singlehandedly - with the aid of a borrowed sword and hat and a fixed grimace - recreates a cavalry charge. What a guy! Foggy Dewhurst Mental picture from his Western Front series of Foggy Dewhurst firing 15 rounds rapid...priceless Just read the book myself and was well satisfied that the material covered was that which I felt the book was meant to. From the start I felt it was more of a book for the fledgling WW1 reader, and whilst not breaking lots of new ground, was written with the usual enthusiam and resources he brings to his books. Hey, the guy still has to pay the bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 I have read 'Tommy' and found it an excellent read and very informative. Professor Holmes should be congratulated, not only his books but also his 'War Walks' TV programmes which have brought alive the history of not only WW1 but armed conflict to many. I look forward to his next book. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carninyj Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 "appeal to the casual reader rather than just the ardent 1WW buff" Richard (DirtyDick) that is the crux of the matter. That's how I see myself and for people like me the book was excellent. I appreciate the truth of what you say about the profound depth of knowledge possessed by some on the Forum and I can see their point too. 'It's horses for courses', as we say around here. Carninyj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 3 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2005 Just popped up for air ... it's getting a little muggy down in the dugout! Two points -1. Prof's writing ability is not in question. He's got the sales to prove it and that, gents, is ample proof of his 'readability' credentials. Nor are his presentation skills and charisma. 2. The book was called 'Tommy' ... not brasshat, temporary gentlemen or staff officers. Des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hodges Posted 4 January , 2005 Share Posted 4 January , 2005 Out in paperback late February in the UK by the way. The hardback run more or less completely sold out (try finding a copy now) - so popular nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Kilkenny Posted 6 January , 2005 Share Posted 6 January , 2005 I would consider myself to have more than a passing interest in the Great War (without claiming any great knowledge either!) but I really enjoyed Tommy and learned a fair bit about the troops' attitudes and beliefs. Strangely, I didn't enjoy Redcoat anywhere near as much but there you go. By the way, for those of you still thinking about buying a copy, it was on sale for a tenner at Waterstones in Manchester just after Christmas. You might want to try your local branch. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredJCarss Posted 16 January , 2005 Share Posted 16 January , 2005 I kept picking it up in book shops and then deciding to leave it, for some reason it did not set the pulse racing. However I purchased 'Tommy' last weekend for £10 in an Oxfam shop so somebody did'nt think it worth keeping! I think its not bad and well worth what I paid. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 16 January , 2005 Share Posted 16 January , 2005 well for my 2d, i enjoyed it ( as i have all his books) since reading it i've gone back into it again twice to re-read bits, always a good sign Fred, mine was cheaper (it's taken some time but mandy now listens to my birthday present hints) chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 17 January , 2005 Share Posted 17 January , 2005 If anyones not got a copy yet 8 quid brand new on amazon Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essexboy68 Posted 23 January , 2005 Share Posted 23 January , 2005 Hello I'm a great admirer of Prof Holmes, & thoroughly enjoyed Redcoat. I was waiting for Tommy to come out in paperback, but on the strength of the opinions expressed here, I took it out the local library to see if I do want it. So, now all I need to do is keep off the PC long enough to start reading the book!!! Cheers Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 23 January , 2005 Share Posted 23 January , 2005 Fred, You were robbed. Got a copy in my local Oxfam yesterday for £7.50 !! After this thread I hesitated, but hey, it's for charideee, mate ! Didn't appreciate how hefty a tome it was though !!! Quite when it will rise to the top of the huge pile that is my 'to be read' pile is another matter....! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 8 February , 2005 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2005 OK - putting my head over the parapet again on this one. Having read the book ... twice. Which shows how sad I am ...I still have the same opinion. Yes it is a fine book, perfectly readable , except for the rather hurried 'wrap it up' style of the last few chapters. I know it is meant to be a 'catch-all' book not really aimed at us anoraks BUT Why call the bleedin' thing 'Tommy'? I expected far, far more about the ordinary bloke, the lace-jack and the sgts. Far far too much staff and officer sourcing. On this I take my stand .. On second thought, where's the dug out? Anyone else having similar thoughts on refection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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