Surrey Recruitment Registers

[borstal]

The 44 volumes of the Surrey Recruitment Registers held by Surrey History Centre have now been indexed, and compiled to a CD which is available to the public.

The CD can be purchased from The Surrey History Centre for £15 plus £1 p&p.

Cheques should be made payable to The Surrey History Trust & sent to

Surrey History Centre, 130 Goldsworth Road, Woking, Surrey GU21 6ND, England

Telephone: 01483 518737.

Email: shs@surreycc.gov.uk

The Surrey History Centre is unable to accept payment by credit or debit card.

A brief outline of the scope of the CD is given below:

The 44 volumes, which comprise the Surrey Recruitment Registers, cover the period 1908 to mid 1933. The volumes are not sequential; Volumes 35-38, or parts thereof cover the pre-war period, whilst Volumes 30-34 & 42-43 cover the post war period. The rest cover the war period of 1914-1918. The Surrey History Centre introduction to these Registers is included on the CD. It details the “Provenance” of the Collection, the area of coverage, the reasons for the establishment of the Registers, their change in format throughout the War period, an explanation of the categories used under the “Derby scheme” and also the Medical categories. Detail is also included as to the period of coverage of each of the 44 volumes.

Each volume is made up of about 200 pages of Army form B303 - though some have unused pages. Each page or form has 26 columns and there are at least two versions with different ordering of the columns across the page. Sometimes a column was unused or was used to record information other than that printed at the head of the column. Sample images from the Registers are included on the CD.

Some of the information about Army administration, such as “Recruiter or Recruiting Agent”, “Attesting Officer”, “Witness”, or “By whom Finally Approved”, was judged to be of marginal interest. Omission of these items lessened the task of extracting information. All personal information relating to each recruit has been extracted.

The compilers of these Registers made extensive use of abbreviations which are not consistent either within a single volume or between volumes. For example in the Regimental postings the East Surrey Regiment may have been recorded as E Surrey Regt, ESR, E S R, or E Sry. To overcome this inconsistency it was decided to expand all abbreviations to a common format - for each Regiment. Thus the East Surrey Regiment is always shown as such whatever was entered originally.

This approach runs the risk that an abbreviation might be expanded incorrectly, “SLI” is a case in point, as this could refer to either the “Shropshire Light Infantry” or to the “Somerset Light Infantry. However it was considered to be a risk worth taking, to minimise errors extensive use was made of Army Regimental web sites.

The Regimental names are naturally those prevailing at the time. For example the Royal prefix to the Army Service Corps is not applicable prior to 1919.

Extensive use of abbreviations was also made in those parts of Form B303 relating to a recruits’ physical attributes. These too have been expanded, although, due to space considerations, to a lesser extent in respect of “Distinctive Marks” for which there are some lengthy entries. Use has been made of a “+” sign in this field to indicate that there is additional information in the original registers.

In many of the 44 volumes a name & address was usually recorded in the “Remarks” column; the significance of this entry seems to vary over time. In the pre 1914 volumes the name & address is that of the person providing the recruit's character reference. In the period 1914-1918 the address given could well be that of the recruit. In the post war period the information given is usually the name & address of the next of kin, although in some instances it is again that of the person supplying the recruit's character reference. The Introduction by The Surrey History Centre (included on this CD) gives the exact dates covered by each Volume.

The post war volumes sometimes include within the “Accepted/Rejected” column references to various Army Orders, and are often linked to a term of service less than the normal 12 years. Copies of these Army Orders are held at The National Archives at Kew.

For Family Historians the files of major interest are the Surname Index, & the Extracts of Recruits entries. Both of these files are in Adobe Acrobat format, and a copy of the Acrobat Reader program is provided.

For Social Historians a copy of the master database (in Visual Dbase format) has been included on the CD. Persons wishing to access this database will need to provide their own software, for example Microsoft “Access”, Lotus “Approach”, “Paradox”, “Foxpro”, or “Dbase”. They will also need to be able to construct their own SQL statements to extract the information.

[ypres1418]

Thanks for the info, but now I am confused with your last statement, if I have windows XP professional will I be able to use the disc without any problems?

I am not too computer orientated at the moment.

Mandy

[borstal]

To ypres1418

Short answer is yes; CD was compiled on PC using XP Pro.

Suspect your confusion is over accessing raw data; you will not need to do this if you are only looking for individual people.

The database was included for those people who want to find out things like how many persons enlisted in a particular regiment

[ypres1418]

Thanks for that.

Must post off a cheque this week and get them.

Mandy

[neiluwins]

Hi

This sounds like a great research database, which I am very tempted to purchase.

I have read the post a couple of times, exactly what infomation does it give you on each person? Name, address, regiment enlisted in etc etc. (could post a sample or PM me and will forward my email to you)

I ask as I have a number of possible uses, Family history (name search), local history (I am interested in looking for men who enlisted from Redhill Surrey) and I am also a Royal West Surrey Medal collector.

Many Thanks

Neil

[Charles Fair]

John

thanks for the tip off by email - I will definitely get a copy. Looking forward to finding out how many men went into the London Regt, either directly or via the Queens or East Surrey.

Neil - I hadn't realised you were local. I'm in Reigate. I am interested in how many men from the area ended up directly enlisting in the London Regt TF when the 2/2nd London Div (60 Div) was stationed in Reigate and area in January - March 1915. Would be interested in swapping info with you on this.

Charles

[borstal]

Neil

The information varies based on time register was compiled etc.,

Generally, but not always, you will get Surname, First Name or Initials, Regiment, Date of Attestation, Age, Height, Weight, Colour of Eyes, Hair, Complexion, Distinguishing Marks, Place of Birth, Category (Derby Scheme), Marital Status, Next of Kin, Address.

The information on approx 89,000 men is compiled as Adobe Acrobat files for the Family Historian, and as database for the social historians.

Hope the above answers your question

[neiluwins]

borstal

Thanks for the information that is exactly what I was hoping for, a cheque will be in the post in the morning.

Charles

You go on the world wide web and end up talking to your neighbours I am local I live in Redhill, I have a number of interests in the local area my family has been in Redhill since the 1880's. I also collect WW1 medals to the Queen's Regiment which inclues a number of medal groups to local men.

A new project I have been working on is men from Redhill who died while serving in the Queen's during WW1. I have been wanting to widen my research to include ALL men who served from Redhill i.e. non-casualties, which is where I hope this CD will be a big help.

I had hoped to visit the Surrey Mirror and search the old newpaper records but I have heared its not a very helpfully place to visit

Do you know of any other local sources of infomation I could try? (I've done the surrounding war memorials and graveyards)

Cheers

Neil

[Christina]

What a great resource, my Grandfather was from Balham in the Wandsworth registration district, would this have been in Surrey at the time of the 1914-18 war?

Regards

Christina

[borstal]

Christina

There are a lot of entries in the Registers for the Wandsworth area, however do remember that these Registers only cover a couple of Regimental Districts, so there is no guarantee that it will include your relation.

There are approx 89,000 entries with birthplaces from all over the World including Poland & Russia.

One entry which caught my eye was for a William Hitler

[Hambo]

Charles and Neil

I'm only up the A25 at Limpsfield and have am researching a number of memorials around me. Most of our lads were in the Queens and a lot joined up at Redhill.Anything I can do let me know what you're on the look out for and if I come accross it I'll pass it on.

Just popped my cheque in the post as well

Hambo

[kevin ley]

Can anyone tell me the area of coverage for the registers? My gt grandfather lived in Oatlands Park, Weybridge in NW Surrey when he joined up in September 1914.

Kevin.

[borstal]

Kevin

The bulk of the coverage is based around Kingston; however one volume covers recruitment at Guildford.

Have a look on Surrey History Centre Web site and look for item Ref 2496; ther is a comprehensive description of all 44 volumes and periods of coverage

[kevin ley]

Many thanks I will check it out.

Kevin.

[kevin ley]

I don't suppose I could impose on a kindly soul to do a lookup for me??? I am not sure if my gt grandfather would have enlisted at either Kingston or Guildford but it would be nice to rule them out.

His details (and photo) can be found on my signature page - Lewis John Ley.

Kevin Ley.

[JulianB]

Could I also jump on the bandwagon and ask if someone with the disc could look up two names.

John Reid and brother Ivie Reid came from Brockhamhurst Farm in Betchworth.

To be honest I have no idea if they joined up or not, let alone what regiment.

But negative evidence would at least be some evidence !

thanks

Julian

[jo.36]

Hi

Yet another person wanting a kind soul who has access to the new Surrey Registers to do a look up.

Herbert Edgar Roberts believed from the New Malden area of Kingston. Not much other info. on him other than my cousin says his name appears as H E Roberts on the New Malden War Memorial. Believed to have been an older married conscript, possibly in Royal West Surrey Regt. So I am trying to help her with almost no info. except he died in WW1!

Thanks

jo

[Charles Fair]

You go on the world wide web and end up talking to your neighbours I am local I live in Redhill, I have a number of interests in the local area my family has been in Redhill since the 1880's. I also collect WW1 medals to the Queen's Regiment which inclues a number of medal groups to local men.

A new project I have been working on is men from Redhill who died while serving in the Queen's during WW1. I have been wanting to widen my research to include ALL men who served from Redhill i.e. non-casualties, which is where I hope this CD will be a big help.

I had hoped to visit the Surrey Mirror and search the old newpaper records but I have heared its not a very helpfully place to visit

Do you know of any other local sources of infomation I could try? (I've done the surrounding war memorials and graveyards)

Neil, Hambo - sounds like a good excuse for an Bakers Pals (East Surrey Platoon) get together. One of the pubs in Outwood perhaps?

I sent my cheque off yesterday and am looking forward to digging through the data. Specifically I'm looking for men from Reigate who enlisted in my grandfathers bn the 19th London Regt (St Pancras) when it was stationed in the town from Jan - March 1915. I know of the following two who were killed, and I assume that there must have been a few others.

TAYLOR, Arthur Frederick, Sgt, 3402 and 610783

W Front 24/06/1916 to 24/11/1916, then Salonika, Palestine

D of W 14/12/1917, Jerusalem

buried: Jerusalem War Cem

enlisted: Reigate, Surrey

resided: Reigate, Surrey

(Sources: 19th London ROH, SDITDGW, BW&VM Roll and The Second Nineteenth)

WOODMAN , Edwin, L/Cpl, 3433 and 610797

W Front 28/06/1915 to 16/11/1915 with 1/19th

Transferred to 2/19th and served with them on W Front, Salonika, Palestine

K in A 22/03/1918, First Jordan

buried: Jerusalem War Cem

enlisted: Reigate, Surrey

resided: Reigate, Surrey

(Sources: 19th London ROH, SDITDGW, 1915 Star and BW&VM Rolls and The Second Nineteenth)

There were also a large number of men who served in the Queens or the E Surreys who ended up being transferred into the 19th. I hope to track some of them down too.

My family (on my grandmothers side) lived in Reigate in the 1880s up until about 1912 when they moved to Leverstock Green in Hertfordshire. They moved because Surrey was getting too built up.

I havent tried the Surrey Mirror but I did find the Surrey History Service in Woking very helpful - they have all the old papers on microfilm.

Charles

[Chris_B]

Oh ******, I was hoping news of this wouldn't get out It's been a long 18 month wait for this CD-ROM since I first learnt it was in the making, and about two years since I first learnt of the existence of the "Recruitment Registers". I posted my cheque on Sunday. God I hope they don't run out. Has anyone actually got a copy yet?

Here's some extra info I received from the SHC end of last week:

================================================

There are spaces for the following information,

Surname

Forenames

Regiment

Age

Height

Weight

Chest measurement

Chest expansion

Complexion

Eyes

Distinctive marks, i.e. a tattoo or scar

Occupation

Birthplace

Date of Attestation

Place of Attestation

Remarks, usually the person’s address

However not all these fields (usually for the physical attributes) are

completed in some of the registers.

The registers are dated between 1908 and 1933 and, apart from one, relate

to the 31st (East Surrey Regiment) Recruitment District, which was formed

of North East Surrey, including Croydon (which at the beginning of the war

was part of the 2nd District) and South West London. 2496/44 covers the 2nd

(Queen’s Royal West Surrey Regiment) District.

Although the registers mainly cover the East Surrey Regiment’s recruitment

area, they do include other regiments, like the Queen’s (RWS) Regiment, the

Army Service Corps, the Royal Field Artillery, Middlesex Regiment, Royal

Engineers, plus other regiments a recruit chose to join. Sometimes a

battalion number is given as well as the regiment.

========================================================

I know my Grandfather's cousins are in it, and my Great Unlce Ted. Hoping to find an entry for my Grandfather Albert, and his brother Joshua Frank, a man I never knew. A load of other relatives and in-laws to look for, and the small matter of 587 Mitcham Men.

This is the sort of thing you might find:

> 2496/Volume 1 page 72

>

> Name Reuben Burge

> Regiment East Surrey

> Age 19 years 6 months

> Height 5 foot 7 inches

> Weight 110lbs

> Chest 34 inches,

> Chest expansion 2 inches

> Complexion Pale

> Hair Brown

> Eyes Grey

> Distinctive marks None

> Occupation Painter

> Birthplace Tooting

> Place of Attestation Kingston

> Date 6 September 1914

>

Grandfather's cousin, survived.

> 2496/Volume 1 page 73

>

> Name Samuel George Burge

> Regiment East Surrey

> Age 21 years 6 months

> Height 5 foot 4 inches

> Weight 120lbs

> Chest 35 inches,

> Chest expansion 2 inches

> Complexion Pale

> Hair Brown

> Eyes Blue

> Distinctive marks None

> Occupation Decorator

> Birthplace Tooting

> Place of Attestation Kingston

> Date 6 September 1914

Rueben's brother, KIA

>Volume 1 page 182

>Name George F Willis

>Regiment East Surrey Regiment

>Age 27 years 8 months

>Height 5' 2½"

>Weight 118lbs

>Chest 36"

>Chest expansion 2"

>Distinctive marks Scar on knee

>Occupation Agent

>Birth place Battersea

>Date enlisted 11 December 1914

>Place of attestation Kingston on Thames

>Remarks 84 Robinson Road, Tooting.

Grandfather's neighbour, KIA

> Volume 27 page 140

>

> Name E T Hall

> Regiment Royal Engineers (Depot)

> Number 31221

> Category 37

> Age 31 years 0 months

> Height 5 foot 5 inches

> Weight 120lbs

> Chest 35 inches,

> Chest expansion 2 inches

> Medical grade C2

> Occupation Painter

> Sub Area Wimbledon

> Place of Attestation Kingston

> Date 7 March 1917

> Remarks Boston Villa, Cavendish Road, Merton

Great Uncle Ted had a dodgy heart, never went overseas as far as I know.

All data kindly suppiled to me by the SHC while the CD was in preparation. No guesses as to what the men in my family did before the war.

Fantastic news that the raw data is on the CD- ROM. Hours of fun with tables, queries and reports. Better brush up my SQL ... I really hope MS-ACCESS doesn't barff on it. Seriously though, just think what you could do if you had a copy of the CWGC register to query just as you pleased.

I cannot thank SHC enough for the work they have put into this project. But please, can I have my CD now!

Chris.

[borstal]

Chris

I've got my copy; it works well and you shouldn't have any problems with MS Access; I tried it on the raw data (which is in Visual Dbase 5) before I burnt the master copy.

You must have a friend at SHC to get all that info in advance.

I know it took a long time from when you first heard about the project, but there is a lot of work in such as this, and it is all done by volunteers not by SHC staff.

One point of note to anybody intending to use the raw data, MSWorks database will not handle the data, the raw database is too big.

[Chris_B]

I don't suppose I could impose on a kindly soul to do a lookup for me??? I am not sure if my gt grandfather would have enlisted at either Kingston or Guildford but it would be nice to rule them out.

His details (and photo) can be found on my signature page - Lewis John Ley.

Kevin Ley.

Sorry Kevin, no luck. I could only find entries for :

A Ley, born Malden

A J Ley , born Bow

W LEY, born Battersea

Regards,

Chris

Could I also jump on the bandwagon and ask if someone with the disc could look up two names.

John Reid and brother Ivie Reid came from Brockhamhurst Farm in Betchworth.

To be honest I have no idea if they joined up or not, let alone what regiment.

But negative evidence would at least be some evidence !

thanks

Julian

Julian,

There are four J.Ried, one J.C. Ried and one J.S Reid, none ar listed as being from Betchworth.

Regards,

Chris.

[Chris_B]

Hi

Yet another person wanting a kind soul who has access to the new Surrey Registers to do a look up.

Herbert Edgar Roberts believed from the New Malden area of Kingston. Not much other info. on him other than my cousin says his name appears as H E Roberts on the New Malden War Memorial. Believed to have been an older married conscript, possibly in Royal West Surrey Regt. So I am trying to help her with almost no info. except he died in WW1!

Thanks

jo

Did you look on CWGC and SDGW? This may be your man:

CWGC

Name: ROBERTS

Initials: H E

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment: Durham Light Infantry

Unit Text: 14th Bn.

Date of Death: 02/09/1917

Service No: 49713

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. D. 56.

Cemetery: LONGUENESSE (ST. OMER) SOUVENIR CEMETERY

SDGW adds:

Full name: Herbert Edgar

Born: Walworth

Enlisted: Kinston-on-Thames

Resident: New Malden

Died of Wounds

Recruitment Register adds:

Attested Kingston, 22/07/16, address 4 Burlington Rd New Malden, Window Cleaner, aged 36.

DLI 5th Battn 16581

Chris

I've got my copy; it works well and you shouldn't have any problems with MS Access; I tried it on the raw data (which is in Visual Dbase 5) before I burnt the master copy.

You must have a friend at SHC to get all that info in advance.

I know it took a long time from when you first heard about the project, but there is a lot of work in such as this, and it is all done by volunteers not by SHC staff.

One point of note to anybody intending to use the raw data, MSWorks database will not handle the data, the raw database is too big.

Borstal,

Not a friend, just a very understanding and helpful member of staff. The DBF file loads in ACCESS 2003 no problem. I won't try normalising the table

For others asking for look-ups, I don't won't to seem mean or unhelpful, but I don't know if this is really fair on the SHC and all those volunteers who have put an awful lot of work into this, £15 + £1 postage is not a huge sum to pay. Shoot me down in flames if you like .. opinions please.

Chris.

[Christina]

Can some kind soul do a look up for me, I am in Australia so it is difficult to buy a copy from the society as they do not have a credit card facility. I need any Tucker's from Balham, particularly Robert or Harry at Larch Road. Many Thanks

Regards

Christina

[JulianB]

Chris,

Thanks very much, I aoppreciate your time - and sentiments !

Julian

[Chris_B]

Can some kind soul do a look up for me, I am in Australia so it is difficult to buy a copy from the society as they do not have a credit card facility. I need any Tucker's from Balham, particularly Robert or Harry at Larch Road. Many Thanks

Regards

Christina

Christina,

The register contains 49 entries in the name of TUCKER, of these 17 have No address, many have initials only. There is only one "R. TUCKER" listed, a "Rob EdW Shaw TUCKER", born Mallow County Cork, no address given. There is no H.TUCKER with a Balham address. There is a "F J TUCKER" of 133 Endlesahm Road Balham, amd a "C.TUCKER" of 25 Balham Hill. There is a "Harry TUCKER" of 23 Floss Road Garratt Lane Tooting (not so far from Balham), born Camberwell, aged 39, attested 08/02/1915, 15th Hussars.

The data is not easily extracted from the CD-ROM. These men are scattered throughout the 44 Vols of the register and cannot be simply cut and pasted. I 'm working on it. PDF doesn't want to play ball and I my MS-ACCESS skills are very rusty

Regards,

Chris.