Why the Royal Field Artillery?

[peejay67]

My Great Uncle was the first of three brothers to join up. He was Scottish and joined C battery of the 86th Brigade of the Royal Field Artillery. My question is this- Would he have had to have knowledge of horses? Would he have been trained as a horseman? Why would he have chosen the RFA as opposed to the Royal Scots that both his brothers joined?

Many thanks

Peter Jenkins

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Probably only if a Saddler,or Driver,or associated trades,as a Gunner he wouldn't need Horsey knowledge

[Tom A McCluskey]

Peter,

My Great Grnadfather (Tom McCluskey) was a wheel rider (or driver) in the RFA. Nobody in my family is horsey, with respect to riding them. Remember that the Artillery was a massive component of the army, and that horses were massively important to the allied victory. It was not so much the occasion of choice, but the real scenario of what happened that determined career choices. Here is Tom:

Grandfather, - please blame it on the beer:)

[Tom A McCluskey]

Peter,

What I was trying to say (but a few beers with the chaps stifled - and made me speak b*ll*cks), was that it was a case of where needs must.

The Army did require an awful lot of Artillery so the choice was probably made by the Army and not by your great uncle.

Tom McC

[KONDOA]

Tom,

If the picture is complete he is not wearing spurs and riding boots that one would expect.

Roop

[Tom A McCluskey]

Yep,

that's correct, as you can see form his attire and demeanour, this photo is in his field gear.

Tom McC

[KONDOA]

Its a good photo, and has lots of texture.

Roop

[Tom A McCluskey]

Roop,

Thanks

I was just speaking to my father on the phone about my Great Grandfather. My father was saying that when they were driving the horses they used to wear a type of caliper/leg brace. I haven't actually seen this.

I think my father said that there is also photo of Thomas wearing the uniform of a wounded soldier. But one of the family has that photo.

Incidentally my wive's great grandfather and his brother were both in 78 Brigade RFA here's a photo of them (back left). They were Lancashire lads, I think form Burnley.

Tom McC

[Tom A McCluskey]

Roop,

Here is my Great Grandfather's transfer to the reserve. On it you can see that he is a driver on the top right. My father initially thought he was RHA but his medal card states that he is RFA.

Hope this is helpful

Tom McC

[KONDOA]

Nice bits there Tom, I have not any photos that show a leg brace but I can imagine that that would be the case to spread the weight off the stirrup a bit.

Roop

[Gunner Bailey]

My Grandfather (the Gunner Bailey) was in the RFA. He was a short wiry man who had been a beeswax refiner pre war. He ended up in the RFA and his testimonial on leaving the RFA says 'Very good with horses', but I've no idea if he worked with horses pre-war. In a barely motorised world I expect most people could ride or deal with horses.

Gunner Bailey

[Tom A McCluskey]

Gunner,

I believe my Great Grandfather was a skilled tradesman in the shipyard in Dundee (I think Brown's at the time), which a the time was a very industrial city. There would be plenty of horse and carts, but my family were not well heeled enough to have a couple of acres of Angus with a couple of chesnuts brown 16 hand chargers in the paddock

So any horsemanship, in the case of my Great Grandfather must have been taught on joining the Army. Scotland isn't particularly famous for producing large amounts of horsemen (1 cavalry regiment, and various mounted infantry regiments [yeomanrys]). I am sure the problem would have been army-wide, just due to the vast quantities of horses that were needed.

The guy forth back facing the road is my wife's Great Granddad (yep the one smoking - whilst sitting next to enough munitions to take out an average sized village ). He is Richard Cunliffe 78 Bde RFA, he was to lose his brother Harry at Thiepval in February 1917. Harry is remembered on the forward face of the Thiepval Memorial. Richard an Harry were both working class fellows from an industrial area of Lancashire.

As can be seen the road, to the rear is busy with gun carriages hope these illustrate the continued use of horses, whilst a Ford Model T pulls the big shells up to the front.

Tom McC

[Swally]

My Grandfather was also in the RFA / RHA coming from Aberdeen I can't imagine many gee gees running down Union Street. After he left the army he made a good part of his life buying and selling horses, in fact he was the man to see in Bo'ness if you needed a good horse for hauling carts. I even have an advert for him offering a chestnut gelding for sale from the Scotsman Newspaper.

So I would conclude that you were possibly sent where the army needed men rather than what you wanted to do, remember there was agreat need for horse handlers during the Great War.

Swally

[Gunner Bailey]

Gunner,

There would be plenty of horse and carts, but my family were not well heeled enough to have a couple of acres of Angus with a couple of chesnuts brown 16 hand chargers in the paddock

So any horsemanship, in the case of my Great Grandfather must have been taught on joining the Army.

Tom McC

Hi Tom

Actually you have made a very good point here about horses and carts beings about the place. In my family history between the 1850s and 1900 I have a few ancestors who were Car Men or Car Boys listed on census forms. These were basically the equivalent of the modern white van man. Cars - open back carts pulled by two horses were the transit van of their day. Almost every business had one and many working class youths worked on them before settling for a trade.

I actually expect that horsemanship relating to Cars (carts) was far more common than we realise. Driving the company cart was probably a skill many picked up and quite literally horses were everywhere, so general knowledge about them must have been widespread.

Great photo - by the way.

Gunner Bailey

[Tom A McCluskey]

Gunner,

Do you have any pictures of the drivers wearing a leg brace please?

regards

Tom McC

[KONDOA]

Tom,

I am thinking the leg brace may be a leather calf "spat" on the inner side of the calf to prevent wear. ??

Roop

[Gunner Bailey]

Gunner,

Do you have any pictures of the drivers wearing a leg brace please?

regards

Tom McC

Sorry Tom

All military photos of my grandfather were thrown away in the 1980s ...sob.

Apparently there was a great one of him mounted on a horse.

Gunner Bailey

[Vista52]

My g'father was Gnr W. Vaux #41116 and his youngest brother was Dvr H. Vaux #39639. On their birth certificates, their father is listed as a Hackney Cab Driver.

Incidently Tom, I think my g'father was also a member of the 78th Brigade. His overseas date on his MIC is 13-7-1915. Does that match your wife's relations?

[peejay67]

Gunner,

Do you have any pictures of the drivers wearing a leg brace please?

regards

Tom McC

I have a photo of my Great Uncle on his horse but no signs of a leg brace. How can I display the photo onhere? Every time I try it says it is too large even when it is reduced greatly????

Can anyone help?

Many thanks

PJ

[Tom A McCluskey]

Vista,

Harry was C Battery 78 Bde (17 Northern Division). I am sure that they were both in the same battery but when I done a close up of the rail system that has Richard riding on it, it looks like Richard has RGA shoulder titles. Maybe he was moved or transferred when his brother Harry was killed.

I cannot find Harry or Richards MICs online. So I may need to ask Kew for a manual interrogation of the system. Richard survived. Here are Harry's details on the Commonwealth Wargraves Commision site. If anyone has SDGW details for Harry they would be much appreciated:

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=757990

Hope this is of use Vista

And if anyone does a SDGW lookup - then much appreciated (in advance)

Regards

Tom McC

[johnreed]

This is a photo of a Leg Iron which protects his leg from the Traces or Draught Pole.

John