The K Boats

[Clio]

A steam driven submarine can only ever be regarded as 'experimental', never mind the delusional quest for a fleet boat.

[centurion]

A steam driven submarine can only ever be regarded as 'experimental', never mind the delusional quest for a fleet boat.

So the US Navy's whole submarine fleet and most of the RN's are experimental? They all have steam turbines! The K boats were ill conceived and poorly designed but not experimental once they went into production.

[submarine]

Hi

I have been researching David de Beauvoir Stocks and his wife for sometime , i have a copy photo of the Memorial in St Margaret Pattens Church and "Shields .Hugh Sladen Capt RAMC " appears on it . If anyone has information on the battle or Stocks please share with all rather than by PM.

Colin

[BJanman]

Thanks for all your comments.

I do not know anything about submarines but I've found a booklet called 'The First Submarines' by the Imperial War Museum. I've just checked to see if there was any information about the event and it states

"A chapter of accidents befell the seventeen boats of the 'K' Class, some of them the sort of mishaps that submarines are prone to suffer, but because of their role with the Fleet they were unduly exposed to the risk of collision. The worst event was the 'Battle of May Island' on the night of 31st January 1918, when two flotillas of 'K' boats operating with battle cruisers on a night exercise were involved in multiple collisions. K4 was sunk by K6, and K17 was sunk by a cruiser. To confirm the growing suspicion of a hoodoo on the class, an inquiry revealed that the disaster was caused by a jammed helm in K22, which was actually K13 renamed after she had drowned most of her crew on her maiden voyage".

Colin, do you know if the memorial is to commemorate all the men who died on the 31st or does it include others? I am interested to know if Capt Shields is Lt Shields who was killed in action in 1914 or if he is someone else who has not been listed by the CWGC.

Thanks

Barbara

[melliget]

I think the Lieutenant Hugh Shields listed on the CWGC for 1914 is definitely Hugh John Sladen Shields (see mentions in The Times), so a slight typo there. In memoriam notices were still being placed up until around 1945.

The Times, Saturday, Apr 05, 1913

BOXING

THE ARMY CHAMPIONSHIPS

LIGHT HEAVY WEIGHTS.- Semi-final bouts.-

Captain M. P. Leahy (R.A.M.C.) beat Lieutenant

H. J. S. Shields (R.A.M.C.); ..

The Times, Thursday, Sep 17, 1914

NEWS OF MISSING OFFICERS

Information has been received through private

sources that Lieutenant H. J. S. Shields, R.A.M.C.,

reported missing, has rejoined his unit, the Irish

Guards.

The Times, Monday, Nov 02, 1914

DEATHS

SHIELDS.- Lieutenant HUGH JOHN SLADEN, R.A.M.C.,

Irish Guards, killed in action Oct 25-26, age 27. Dearly

loved son of the Rev. A. J. and Mrs. SHIELDS, Thornford Rectory.

Sherborne, Dorset.

The Times, Wednesday, Nov 04, 1914

Fallen Officers

Lieut. H. J. Shields, of whom a short notice

appeared in The Times yesterday, was stroke of the

Cambridge University boat in 1910. He was com-

missioned in 1912 and was mentioned in Sir John

French's dispatches.

The Times, Tuesday, Oct 26, 1937

IN MEMORIAM

SHIELDS.- In ever-loving memory of HUGH JOHN

SLADEN SHIELDS, Lieut. R.A.M.C., attached Irish

Guards, killed near Ypres, Oct. 26, 1914.

The Times, Friday, Nov 02, 1945

THIRTY YEARS ON

TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES

Sir,- In your issue on October 26, under

the heading "In Memoriam," the death of

Hugh I. S. Shields, Lieutenant, R.A.M.C., on

October 26, 1914, is recalled. It may be of

interest to relate that, accompanied by

Guardsman William Delaney, I assisted in the

recovery of the body from no-man's land on

the forementioned date. On the same occasion

we rescued C.S.M. J. Orr, who was badly

wounded, but recovered, from the same

ground. I may mention that in this instance

we were acting under the instruction of Lieu-

tenant Harold Alexander, as the present

field-marshal was then known, and on whose

recommendation I received my decoration.

Sincerely yours,

CHARLES MORAN, D.C.M. (ex-Warrant

Officer, Irish Guards).

British Council Officers, Hanover Street,

Hanover Square, W.1, Oct. 30.

As to the possible identity of a Captain Shields dying in early 1918, I could find no information. Seems unlikely that there would be a man with exactly the same, including the unusual third name Sladen, and the same regiment, but not impossible I guess.

regards,

Martin

[melliget]

Using Geoff's search engine, the only two casualties of the R.A.M.C. for 31/01/1918, were Pte. A. BARRON, 2nd (Wessex) Field Ambulance, and Pte. George Henry DEVALLE, attd. 104th Telegraph Construction Coy.

[Waddell]

Barabara,

If you are looking for info on K-Boats or the Battle of May Island it would be worth your while tracking down a copy of "The K Boats" by Don Everitt.

I'd try for the hardback edition with photo's but the paperback has maps and drawings.

 

Regards,

Scott

[Clio]

I have a whole heap of primary source material (gathered for a forthcoming book) which unequivocally demonstrates that a significant tranche of the Royal Navy regarded the K boats as an experimental venture, a doomed experimental venture at that.

[BJanman]

Thank you again for all your help.

The person querying Capt Hugh Sladen Shields RAMC on the memorial is the Secretary of the London Branch of the RAMC Association. He asked me to try and trace information about him and suggested we check that he is listed in the RAMC Roll of Honour in Westminster Abbey. When I did check, the information didn't tie up. I put all we had to go on in the first post but now I can provide him with details of the event, the submarines involved and places to look for further information. Everything posted has been really helpful.

I agree that is it unlikely there were two Hugh Sladen Shields serving in the RAMC but I don't like the thought that there were two and one was not commemorated, hopefully we will find evidence to confirm either way.

Barbara

[submarine]

Dear All

I have taken a look at all the photos of the Memorial and found this , " To the proud and undying Remembrance of my Huaband Comm David De Beauvoir Stocks .RN.DSO. Legion of Honour . Who was drowned January 31st 1918 .Serving his King and Country and in Memory of all those who Died with Him .".: This memorial was paid for and erected by Mrs Stocks, for men lost in the two Submarine lost in ` Battle of May Island `, and can only assume the other mans were added later .

Colin

[BJanman]

This memorial was paid for and erected by Mrs Stocks, for men lost in the two Submarine lost in ` Battle of May Island `. , and can only assume the other mans were added later .

Colin

Thanks Colin.

It seems strange to me that names should be added to a memorial erected for men lost in an event if they were not involved in that event but it's looking as if that's what happened. If someone pays for a memorial to be erected then I would assume they have a say on who is on it, so maybe Capt/Lt Shields was known to Mrs Stocks. Just a thought.

Barbara

[submarine]

Hi All

A friend has sent a copy of the Times for Sat September 7 1918 . In which there is a Heading "A Naval War Shrine" A war shrine to the memory of Commander D.de Beauvoir Stocks. DSO., Legion of Honour ,RN., and to his fellow Officers and Men who were drowned in the North sea last January, was unveiled yesterday at the Church of St Margaret Pattens, East-cheap. The strine, made from the timber of the old training ship Britannia ,was presented by the Widow of the Commander. The service was conducted by the Rev St.Barbe Sladen, the rector , who said that the memorial to his Nephew, who had done brilliantwork in the Sea of Marmora and elsewhere , was absolutely in keeping with the Architecture of a Wren church ,and a welcome addition to the priceless treasures of St Margret Pattens, The names of some Military Officers and soldiers killed in the War were included in the panel.

Colin

[ScrumpyJack]

Hi

Does anyone know anything about an experimental submarine, which was sunk by a British Destroyer on 31st January 1918 in home waters by mistake? Apparently there were over 50 drowned including Capt. Hugh Sladen Sheilds RAMC.

I have been sent a photograph of a monument in St Margaret Pattens Church, Central London, which I have been told is a monument to the event, and it has Capt Hugh Sladen Shields name on it but I cannot trace him. I have found a Lieut Hugh John Haden Sheilds RAMC on the CWGC website, who is in the RAMC roll of honour as Hugh John Sladen Shields but he was killed in action in 1914.

If anybody can give any advice on the incident or the memorial then that would be great, I am a tad confused.

Thanks

Barbara

HMS K4 was also sunk on 21 Jan 1918.

Here is the except from my database of Brit subs:

HMS K4

31 January 1918

Sank in Forth Estuary after collision with HMS K6

On 31^st January 1918 HMS K4 left harbour bound for a North Sea exercise. In what became known as the Battle of May Island a number of submarines were lost. Several collisions occurred, including K6 colliding with K4. So great was the collision that K4 was cut almost in two and sank immediately with the loss of all onboard.

The K class submarines were classified as Fleet class experimental submarines.