206thCEF Posted 19 October , 2008 Share Posted 19 October , 2008 A nice photograph of an unknown private of the 16th London showing the badge and buttons. (click on the pic to enlarge a see the details). Joe http://www.ww1photos.com/Archive_Soldier_16th_London.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 19 October , 2008 Share Posted 19 October , 2008 A nice photograph of an unknown private of the 16th London showing the badge and buttons. (click on the pic to enlarge a see the details). Joe http://www.ww1photos.com/Archive_Soldier_16th_London.jpg Thanks Joe, unusual to see regimental buttons, especially on a non-standard jacket. You can also just see the hint of a formation badge on his right upper arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
206thCEF Posted 19 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2008 FROGSMILE,many thanks. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 19 October , 2008 Share Posted 19 October , 2008 I agree the buttons are unusual. The jacket is an econony pattern and the cap a 1902 pattern. The "formation" sign is likely to be a cloth unit shoulder title. Nice picture. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 21 October , 2008 Share Posted 21 October , 2008 Pals, Would the badge and buttons normally have been blackened in the rifles tradition? QWR had been affiliated to the KRRC and were affiliated again between the wars, and their successor unit is now absorbed into The Rifles, so they were strongly connected to the rifles tradition, and yet I've never seen any blackened QWR insignia. Anyone know anything about that? Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 21 October , 2008 Share Posted 21 October , 2008 Pals, Would the badge and buttons normally have been blackened in the rifles tradition? QWR had been affiliated to the KRRC and were affiliated again between the wars, and their successor unit is now absorbed into The Rifles, so they were strongly connected to the rifles tradition, and yet I've never seen any blackened QWR insignia. Anyone know anything about that? Cheers, Mark I have a good number of QWR photos and it's quite an even mix of brass and black buttons. Although the definition of the images isn't so good to identify most of the buttons; such of the black ones as one can see in detail seem to be of the 'Strung Bugle' - rather than regimental - variety. At least one, though, is sporting regimental buttons. Of the two actual QWR tunics I've handled, one has black regimental buttons, the other brass GS ones. Cap badges in my photos are almost universally black. Best wishes, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 21 October , 2008 Share Posted 21 October , 2008 Hello all, As GT as said a fairly even mix. Most of the photos I have show black buttons. A veteran of the Rifle Brigade told me that when he was posted from the Training Reserve to his Battalion, he was told that he would either have to purchase a set of Rifle buttons or have his brass GS buttons chemically blackened (this was done within the unit) All of his draft elected to buy a set of buttons which cost 1/6d a set. I'm sure that this was the case in other Regiments/Corps. This would account for the variation. Interestingly when I met him in the late 1980s, he still had his last uniform brought home on demob. He was proud of the fact that he could still get into it....which he demonstrated on the first of many visits I made over the years. He died in 2000 aged 101. Regards Tocemma ps the titles visible in the photo would have been 'Q.W.R.' in red cotton embroidery on khaki backing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
206thCEF Posted 21 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2008 Speaking for myself,I would like to thank you Gents for the info. Cheers Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 22 October , 2008 Share Posted 22 October , 2008 Hello all,QWR also wore (just NCOs I would imagine) Regimental pattern buttons as shown in the linked image below. This is Sergeant J W Scott, SIM, 2/16th QWR. The picture was taken in late 1915 and predates the adoption of the embroidered titles.I have several images of senior NCOs from this unit all are wearing pre war (full dress buttons?) with SDAny button experts out that could confirm this??RegardsTocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 22 October , 2008 Share Posted 22 October , 2008 There are quite a few instances of TF Rifle units buying their regimental buttons from the regiment's tailors - mentioned in Four Years On The Western Front by A Rifleman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 22 October , 2008 Share Posted 22 October , 2008 Speaking for myself,I would like to thank you Gents for the info. Cheers Joe That goes for me too All the QWR badges/buttons I've seen have been unblackened, but they were mostly on eBay, and we all know how "genuine" they are! What exactly would the QWR regimental button have looked like? I can't make out the detail in Tocemma's photo above. Did the KRRC have a "regimental" button? I've only ever seen the strung bugle button - here's an example also with shoulder titles ... [P.S. I've lightened the image so the bugle is a bit more visible] Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 23 October , 2008 Share Posted 23 October , 2008 Hello all, The type of button worn in many of the photos I have is shown below. Regards Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max7474 Posted 23 October , 2008 Share Posted 23 October , 2008 On the subject of the 16th badges, can any one shed any light on what order of dress a white metal version (not plated or chromed) would have been worn. It has been suggested a pre-war walking out dress cap badge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
206thCEF Posted 23 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 23 October , 2008 Well max, you maybe about right when you say that the white metal badge was worn when walking-out pre-1914. I saw something on the British Military Badge Forum, and try to find the posts related to that. I remember seeing something about the the Monmouthshire Regt. Cheers Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max7474 Posted 24 October , 2008 Share Posted 24 October , 2008 It was the BBF members who suggested the walking out idea. I was wondering whether anyone had a photo of it in use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 24 October , 2008 Share Posted 24 October , 2008 Herewith a couple of different cap badge examples - that on the right being either brass or, just possibly, WM. Interestingly, the soldier on the left - bit of a fop, if you ask me - has leather football buttons; while that on the right has 'strung bugles'. Also: one is wearing a 1914 ptn belt, the other a 1908. I'm not sure what the medal ribbon is, but - considering the weird things B&W can do to colours - I wonder if it is the 1911 Coronation. Best wishes, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve hammond Posted 22 April , 2013 Share Posted 22 April , 2013 Hi All, Just to update an old topic here, I can confirm that the unknown Rfm in the picture in the opening post is 1381 J.R Adams, as shown in my pic attached. I am currently researching the QWR & would be keen to hear from anyone with photo's they would be willing to share, I have had some help from friends on the badge forum too & won't use any pics elsewhere! Many thanks in advance, Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantaylor2004@hotmail.com Posted 17 October , 2013 Share Posted 17 October , 2013 photo.doc This is a photo of Private Richard Tebbutt 4066 Rifleman of the 16th London Regiment (Queen's Westminster Rifles) also number 551404. He is listed on the Thiepval Memorial and was KIA on 1st July 1916 (first day of the Somme). I have an idea that he was killed at Gommecourt although I'm not sure of this. I have asked and listed a war diary request and hope that I may get a reply with some help? He was born 1893 in Hackney and resided at 9 Rossington Street Upper Clapton where his parents also lived. there other son Charles John Tebbutt 13248 was also KIA in 1915. This may be of some interest to you. If you have any other information that I have not listed I would be very grateful to hear from you, All the best, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest robrienmike22 Posted 2 August , 2014 Share Posted 2 August , 2014 This message is directed to Alan and indeed anyone else who is interested. I have just found this website ( goodness knows why it has not become obvious to me before), during the course of family history searches. Richard Tebbutt was my great uncle and he did, indeed have a brother Charles who was in the Lincolnshire Regt and was killed at Loos. Coincidentally, my father, his nephew was in the Lincolns in WWII. Richard was killed at Gommercourt which was supposed to have been a " push over diversionary" action. Dad, long dead now, as a child remembered Charlie but not Richard. grandfather I never knew, was a dispatch rider and died young in 1936 from the after effects of wounds & gassing. Michael Tebbutt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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