Stebie9173 Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 There did seem to be a shot of George Ellison's service record in the programme. Of course, the National Roll has to be taken with a pinch of salt, and "serving soldier" can often just mean recalled from Reserve.... Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 I agree to a point on the lack of the last Belgian.....but he may not have died that day. If you only have an hour, should you also include the last Turk, Rumanian, Bulgarian, Italian, etc., etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 Bruce they had separate armistices going back as far as September I believe Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salfordian Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 I loved the programme and unlike many of the "Critics" of here, I think that you got the balance right and the bits about Pershing and the US troops were interesting. I do not believe that Timewatch was biased for US TV rights and told the stories from all nations equally. I assume the anti American ("They turned up too late") ramblings of some have blinkered what was a really enjoyable piece of television. I also think that Palin was the right presenter. People wanting the last Romanian, Last Italian etc etc - my god how long did you want the programme to run? if you think like that you'd have to have the last person killed for every nationality. It would take hours. I am just glad it was made and I applaud the BBC for the programmes that they are doing between now and the 11th. Those who moan can always watch ITV's coverage and buy the X-Factor single ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 Idle curiosity, but I wonder if George Price's family know that he is often considered the last Commonwealth casualty. He was killed, according to legend, at 10.58am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hayes Fisher Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 My opinion for what is it is worth - the programme was well balanced - it covered the main players on the 11th - Michael Palin was the right choice for the presenter keeping everything straight to the point - the only thing I thought that was missed was the last Belgian casualty, but then you only have an hour to play with. The most poingant part for me was for George Ellison to make through the Great War only for him to be killed more or less where it started for him Chris Ah Chris You must know Aurel Sercu! Aurel and I talked much about Hector LeFebrve (I think thats the spelling of his name). I wanted to include it but it was a matter of time and technical issues. Another regret? Shame really as Belgium and Mons were so significant to us in Britain on that last day. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hayes Fisher Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 Idle curiosity, but I wonder if George Price's family know that he is often considered the last Commonwealth casualty. He was killed, according to legend, at 10.58am. Chris His comrades returned 50 years later to put a plaque up marking the spot. I also saw an article on the internet where a member of his family returned there within the lst few years but apart from that I know little more. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 John was there earlier this year - took several photos of the Price Memorial Plaque - shame the row of cottages had not survived a little known fact but by the 11 th Nov Belgian troops had liberated Ghent Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 ................We found out about his family (from the CWGC) that he had a son who was 5 days short of his 5th Birthday when his father was killed. Hi John (and Paul). I really enjoyed the programme and have no problems with the way events were portrayed; it was entertaining and thought-provoking TV and I don't seen why it should be attracting brickbats from some quarters. Your post above did arouse my interest in another area though.............CWGC generally stonewall all enquiries for further information about individuals, saying that all they have is what is is in the publicly-accessible database. There's no mention of a son in his on-line CWGC record and I can't locate his Sevice Papers on Ancestry. Ergo, they do have other information (I have suspected this for a long time after some dealings with them a few years ago when next of kin info appeared in their database that they couldn't possibly have known otherwise). Can you expand on this source at all? Best wishes. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hayes Fisher Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 Hi John (and Paul). I really enjoyed the programme and have no problems with the way events were portrayed; it was entertaining and thought-provoking TV and I don't seen why it should be attracting brickbats from some quarters. Your post above did arouse my interest in another area though.............CWGC generally stonewall all enquiries for further information about individuals, saying that all they have is what is is in the publicly-accessible database. There's no mention of a son in his on-line CWGC record and I can't locate his Sevice Papers on Ancestry. Ergo, they do have other information (I have suspected this for a long time after some dealings with them a few years ago when next of kin info appeared in their database that they couldn't possibly have known otherwise). Can you expand on this source at all? Best wishes. Andy. Andy If you get a chance to look at the programme on the BBC i-player again you can see that we used a graphic from records provided by the CWGC which gives the name of Georges son. I should say that we could only do this as we had written permission from the family to see the pension records and when it came by cd it needed a PIN no for access. thanks john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 If you get a chance to look at the programme on the BBC i-player i-player is doubtless a fantastic idea but if, like me you live in a rural area where the broadband speeds are slooooow it's almost impossible to use. Because of a family emergency I only managed to see literally the closing minutes of the programme. Will it be repeated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 Thanks for that John. Just to confirm my understanding - are these pension records held by the CWGC or do they have access to them through a third party? Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 i-player is doubtless a fantastic idea but if, like me you live in a rural area where the broadband speeds are slooooow it's almost impossible to use. Because of a family emergency I only managed to see literally the closing minutes of the programme. Will it be repeated? Do you want my video? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCurragh Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 According to the Timewatch website, the program is repeated on 8 November at 2.15am - BBC One except Scotland. Also on tomorrow night at 9.00 on BBC HD, if you have that Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Seymour Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 A very good programme in all respects. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmslt56 Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 A very good programme in all respects. David HellO One of the articles in the Radio Times on this subject says that the British and allied grave stones are white with Germans stones being black all the German stones I have seen are white. Regards Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 An excellent programme, I think. Well done to all. It must be agony to leave so much good stuff and interesting detail out - but one omission was not a single line of Wilfred Owen's wonderful poetry - the programme seemed to pause pregnantly on his picture and then nothing! You can't summon up his ghost like this and then not give us a single line! As has been said, I look forward to the BBC 4 programme tonight to get the German viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Barker Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 A really good programme using original material across a abroad perspective. Refreshingly done I thought. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 unlike many of the "Critics" of here, I think that you got the balance right ... I assume the anti American ("They turned up too late") ramblings of some have blinkered what was a really enjoyable piece of television. Salfordian Would you care to expand on this please? Several of us have explained our thoughts on Pershing's role in the endgame of the Great War. Please point to any anti-Americanism on this thread. JHF And for the record, despite my one cristicism expressed earlier, at no point did I think you devised the programme for the American market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 That wasn't so important, though, as the grossly misleading overemphasis on the importance of the deployment of US troops in combat to the Allied victory.... The significance of US involvement was the threat of its imminence from winter 1917, which was a motivating factor in the German last throw of the dice in March 1918. However the German's last gamble had been stemmed and the tide had turned without US deployment in the field. The British advances from July 1918 to 11 November would have happened anyway without US deployment. Oh well, if that was the case we should have stayed home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Armstrong Custer Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 Oh well, if that was the case we should have stayed home. You probably could have and the result would have been the same - so long as the Germans still believed in Winter 1917 that you were coming sometime in the next few months and launched their last-throw-of-the-dice March 1918 offensive partly as a result of that belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooter Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 I thought it was an excellent programme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodge Dowson Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 Enjoyed the programme very much well done to all, nice one Paul - it was well balanced and a good mix to interest people with varried levels of interest. I like Michael Palin anyway and found him very watchable on this one also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Noble Posted 3 November , 2008 Share Posted 3 November , 2008 Hi John, Many thanks for the reply, very much appreciated. I have always wondered how the research into a programme such as this is collated? Are you given a budget on an individual basis, ie, your goodself or Paul explores sources available in Leeds, or behind the research is there a team of researchers, paid or unpaid? In other words, relying on the generosity of people such as myself that are members of a web forum such as this. Where do these people fit in at the end? I didn't notice any reference to either the GWF or individual people other than those credited on screen John. Regards, Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hayes Fisher Posted 4 November , 2008 Share Posted 4 November , 2008 Thanks for that John. Just to confirm my understanding - are these pension records held by the CWGC or do they have access to them through a third party? Andy. Pension records are held by CWGC and made available to me ONLY after the family writing to the CWGC giving them written consent to let me see a copy of this document . I have no idea how extensive they are just in this instance we were allowed access after the family gave permission. As you might know much of the CWGC paperwork was re-cycled around the time of WW2 due to paper being in short supply. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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