Day the war ended

[John Hayes Fisher]

Hi John,

Many thanks for the reply, very much appreciated.

I have always wondered how the research into a programme such as this is collated? Are you given a budget on an individual basis, ie, your goodself or Paul explores sources available in Leeds, or behind the research is there a team of researchers, paid or unpaid? In other words, relying on the generosity of people such as myself that are members of a web forum such as this.

Where do these people fit in at the end? I didn't notice any reference to either the GWF or individual people other than those credited on screen John.

Regards,

Chris.

Chris

We get given a budget & a period of time to make the programme and as a Producer I get the choice how to use it. The vast majority of money goes on filming, editing and archive film leaving very little over for extras. As a Producer/Director (and in this case the researcher too) I have to try and make the money go round as far as possible. Yes I do ask for favours from members of the Forum and hopefully I have thanked them both personally & on the forum. There are strict BBC guidelines about 'credits' at the end of programmes as most of the public find them dull so we have to keep them brief....or as in News's case none at all. Yes I admit I do rely on the generosity of people on the Forum and hopefully it makes a better programme as a result.

John

[Steven Broomfield]

Can I say that, having watched bits of last night's effort with Dan Snow and the girl from Eastenders whose name I forget (Cassidy?), Michael Palin's contribution to this particular programme was dignified, intelligent, thoughtful and educated. Any reservations I previously expressed on this matter are well and truly removed.

[MartH]

I enjoyed the program and found it most interesting- especially when you had the BBC4 program last night at 9.00 pm with Professor David Reynolds covering more the French and German side, the two together are excellent. I'll start another thread on it. Interestingly that program said that the coach had gone back to Berlin and been destroyed 1945.

Both were interesting and lets not forget entertainment for many non experts.

[John Hayes Fisher]

I enjoyed the program and found it most interesting- especially when you had the BBC4 program last night at 9.00 pm with Professor David Reynolds covering more the French and German side, the two together are excellent. I'll start another thread on it. Interestingly that program said that the coach had gone back to Berlin and been destroyed 1945.

Both were interesting and lets not forget entertainment for many non experts.

I never realised how much the coach was going to haunt us. I was aware that Reynolds was going to tell the story of the coach, but interestingly at the start of his programme he insinuated he was in Foch's coach. As Paul said. The coach is genuine (not a replica!) but NOT the one the Armistice was signed in. The table and chairs were the ones that Foch & the British & indeed the Germans sat at in early Nov 1918. Hope that finally answers the questions... further details can be found at the Armistice museum at Compiegne.

I agree too the Reynolds doc took a different spin on the Armistice and was good for doing that.

John

[Steven Broomfield]

Maybe Timewatch should do a separate programme on The Coach

[MartH]

An interesting lin about said coach, interesting writing style but well worth a read Click Click

[Just Barbara]

Maybe Timewatch should do a separate programme on The Coach

Yes, I will second that, a programme about the coach would be really interesting..

Barbara..

[armourersergeant]

A programme on the actual goings on in the coach would be far more interesting.

regards

Arm

[Rab]

Is there enough information out there to make a programme on the coach?

[Just Barbara]

A programme on the actual goings on in the coach would be far more interesting.

regards

Arm

About the goings on, and about how what we see got there??? I'll watch....( will one viewer be enough??)

Barbara..

[armourersergeant]

I meant the discussions and signing etc. of the armistice. A docu-drama about the characters involved in this episode of history would be great.

regards

Arm

[Chris Noble]

Hi John.

Thanks for the detailed explanation on how one produces a programme for the B.B.C. and the guidelines that are put in place. I have had a most productive evening perusing the aforementioned. Most interesting, indeed.

John, I found your 'Blog' on the internet, and I am sure Forum members would be pleased to hear either your own, or Paul Reed's comments on 'Significant Creative Contribution.'

Quote:

Source: Open2.net History and the Arts

January 20 2008

A contact of Paul Reed has now found a photograph of George Ellison in a local Leeds paper from December 1918 the last British soldier to die in the Great War. We are trying to get a better copy from the British Newspaper Library as it’s a poor quality copy from microfilm. This is certainly a first as I have never seen a photo of Ellison before and I’m sure that next year when the programme goes out, this photo will be picked up by the newspapers which is good publicity for our documentary. We now have photos of the last British Soldier, the last Canadian, the last Frenchman, the last Belgian and the last soldier to be killed in action in WW1 - American Henry Gunther. And we have his photograph too!

Kindest regards to you both in anticipation.

Chris.

[John Hayes Fisher]

Hi John.

Thanks for the detailed explanation on how one produces a programme for the B.B.C. and the guidelines that are put in place. I have had a most productive evening perusing the aforementioned. Most interesting, indeed.

John, I found your 'Blog' on the internet, and I am sure Forum members would be pleased to hear either your own, or Paul Reed's comments on 'Significant Creative Contribution.'

Quote:

Source: Open2.net History and the Arts

January 20 2008

A contact of Paul Reed has now found a photograph of George Ellison in a local Leeds paper from December 1918 the last British soldier to die in the Great War. We are trying to get a better copy from the British Newspaper Library as it’s a poor quality copy from microfilm. This is certainly a first as I have never seen a photo of Ellison before and I’m sure that next year when the programme goes out, this photo will be picked up by the newspapers which is good publicity for our documentary. We now have photos of the last British Soldier, the last Canadian, the last Frenchman, the last Belgian and the last soldier to be killed in action in WW1 - American Henry Gunther. And we have his photograph too!

Kindest regards to you both in anticipation.

Chris.

Sorry Chris

I honestly havnt got a clue what you are on about????

I thought I had answered your questions about Ellison and how I go about making documentaries.

Best wishes

John

[Old Tom]

Hello,

I do not wish to comment on the programme, but rather on the conduct of the AEF as portrayed. It seems to me that the discussion on this thread has overlooked the political aspect of the involvement of the USA. I am not an expert in this field, but have formed the impression that American policy was due to President Wilson's hope of influencing the outcome of the negotiations that would lead to a treaty after the war. He felt that his views would only carry weight if his army had made a significant contribution to the defeat of the German army. There may, therefore, have been pressure on Pershing to achieve a great advance to be comparable with that of the BEF. If my idea has any merit it would be an example of the omission, in this programme - quite understandable - of the governmental input to operations. As another example, a recent programme, dealing, in part with the German offensive in March 18 and the retreat of the 5th Army did not mention that the 5th Army had only just taken over that part of the line following an intergovermental deal and that the Army was understrength because the British government had restricted reinforcement.

Old Tom

[Tom Kilkenny]

Anyone interested in reading about the signing of the armistice should get hold of a copy of the wonderful Thomas Keneally's 'Gossip From The Forest'. It's fiction, of course, but it's absolutely enthralling.

I'm surprised the French haven't made it into a film!

Tom

[Pete1052]

There may, therefore, have been pressure on Pershing to achieve a great advance to be comparable with that of the BEF.

One would need to review communications between Washington DC and Pershing to determinine whether Pershing was directed to maintain the offensive while the armistice talks were in progress. Significant American involvement in ground fighting began at the end of May 1918 and the AEF's Meuse-Argonne offensive during September-November 1918 pushed the Germans back 30 miles. In October 1918 U.S. forces held 101 miles, or 23 percent, of the line on the Western Front.

[Pete1052]

At 9 AM on November 10th, the 33rd U.S. Infantry Division, a Second Army AEF unit, issued a field order stating: "The 33rd Division will carry out the mission laid down in 'Combat in Case of Withdrawal of the Enemy,' Annex No. 11, to Defense Scheme, TROYON-CHAILLON Sector, dated Nov. 8th, 1918. The movement will commence at once. The greatest expedition is necessary." That indicates that the American advance until the cease-fire of the armistice was probably part of a contingency plan that had been worked out in advance. On November 11 at 7 AM Second Army published a field order that announced the armistice and the time when it would go into effect at 11 AM.

[Paul Reed]

Statement by Paul Reed (Historical Consultant) & John Hayes-Fisher (Producer)

BBC Timewatch – Last Day of WW1

It has come to our attention that a number of people appear to wish to create some degree of controversy regarding the photograph of George Ellison we used in the above programme, and therefore we wish to set the facts straight.

We have never claimed, at any time, that the photograph was found by either of us. Why this should be such a big issue, we are not sure, but we want to get that straight.

When we started work on the programme more than a year ago we decided it would be nice to involve the GWF in someway, and also some of its members. We were keen to get as many photos of men who had died on 11 November 1918 as possible, and this is where local researchers, many of whom post here, come into their own. Every person we contacted was told the nature of our research, what it was for and was offered out of pocket expenses, and a DVD copy of the final programme, once broadcast. This is standard practice. None of those we contacted at the time wanted any expenses, they all gave us the impression they were pleased to be asked and happy to be involved.

One member we contacted was ‘mruk’, a Dave who lives in Leeds. We asked him to see if he could find a photograph of Ellison in the local Leeds papers. He was the only person we asked to do this; he expressed he was happy to do so, and again was offered expenses, but declined. He found the photo for us, but the quality he was able to get was not good enough, so we had to send one of our own team to get a useable copy, which is what we used in the film.

As in the intervening months ‘mruk’ was no longer a member of this forum, and I was unable to get in touch with him. A few months ago the Western Front Association Forum started and I noticed a member called ‘Dave Mruk’ who appeared to be the same person. I therefore contacted him to thank once more, give him details of the programme and get his address to send a DVD copy. At no time during our correspondence did he mention any dissatisfaction.

The first we heard of any bad feeling were the somewhat cryptic posts made by ‘Chris Noble’ elsewhere on this thread, which John Hayes-Fisher has answered. Contacting ‘Dave’ we did find he was aggrieved, but he could not really explain over what, or what he wanted us to do about it. What we can only describe as mischievous activity on other forums has forced us to make this statement here.

So once and for all, if it is not clear… the photo was found by ‘Dave’ from Leeds.

This is also our final word on the matter.

[Seadog]

Paul

“Those that can – DO and those that can’t – CRITICISE”

It has always been thus and will remain so.

Best Wishes

Norman

[John_Hartley]

If anyone wants photos finding in Stockport, "John from Stockport" is your man.

Also available for weddings, Bar Mitzvahs and TV documentaries.

Storms in tea cups catered for.

Cheap rates for cash.

[JimSmithson]

Paul

Shame that you have been driven to having to make a statement - please hold on to the fact that the vast majority of members of this Forum, whilst enjoying a good discussion where facts are unclear or interpretation is not obvious, do not fall into the category of those who unfortunately exist in society. I am speaking of those who seem to get a kick out of overt criticism of anyone who puts their head above the parapet and produces some work on, or interpretation of, events historical and contemporary. The advent of the internet has opened a door to such people who, in the past, probably had a small audience within their own home to pontificate to, not the vast one they can address comments towards today. Let me repeat what I said some 8 pages ago in this thread which is a heartfelt thanks to both you and all those who worked on 'The Last Day' for bringing us all such a well made and informative programme. If I see future programmes produced by a similar team it will, for me, be unmissable.

By the way, a colleague (not a history buff at all) at school watched the programme and thought it was 'brilliant'. I rest my case.

John

Mine's a force 10 Earl Grey please. Do your cheap rates for cash mean I get £10 cash for a £5 cheque?

[Tom Kilkenny]

Nice one Mr Hartley. "John from Stockport" really tickled me!

Tom

[towisuk]

Paul

Shame that you have been driven to having to make a statement - please hold on to the fact that the vast majority of members of this Forum, whilst enjoying a good discussion where facts are unclear or interpretation is not obvious, do not fall into the category of those who unfortunately exist in society. I am speaking of those who seem to get a kick out of overt criticism of anyone who puts their head above the parapet and produces some work on, or interpretation of, events historical and contemporary. The advent of the internet has opened a door to such people who, in the past, probably had a small audience within their own home to pontificate to, not the vast one they can address comments towards today. Let me repeat what I said some 8 pages ago in this thread which is a heartfelt thanks to both you and all those who worked on 'The Last Day' for bringing us all such a well made and informative programme. If I see future programmes produced by a similar team it will, for me, be unmissable.

By the way, a colleague (not a history buff at all) at school watched the programme and thought it was 'brilliant'. I rest my case.

John

Mine's a force 10 Earl Grey please. Do your cheap rates for cash mean I get £10 cash for a £5 cheque?

Hear! hear! well said John.......

regards

Tom

[towisuk]

Let me also add a "Thank You" to ALL members of the forum who were involved in this television series. If by using the knowledge that we have ammassed here on our WW1 site it enables programmes to be made, which due to financial circumstances would not normally be undertaken I consider it all well worthwhile.

Well done the "Pals"

Tom

[ianw]

Yes, the Forum members contributions have been terrific. Well done to all. Will we all be asked to be on the TV in due course?