Photographs of knocked out tank and graves of crew

[eirridia]

And at Busigny Cemetery (where Regnicourt dead were moved to):

Died on 17th October 1918

Edwin Daniels, 16th Tank Corps

J F Doig, 16th Tank Corps

Charles George Drewett, 16th Tank Corps

W Fensome, 16th Tank Corps

[Guest geoff501]

And at Busigny Cemetery (where Regnicourt dead were moved to):

Died on 17th October 1918

Edwin Daniels, 16th Tank Corps

J F Doig, 16th Tank Corps

Charles George Drewett, 16th Tank Corps

W Fensome, 16th Tank Corps

Daniels and Dreweitt are buried next to each other in IV. B.

As are Doig and Fensome in III. B.

There is a MGC man next to Fensome. May be significant. And men transferred to Tanks often kept their original regiment.

Next to MGC man is a Northants L/Cpl

All died same day - 17th.

[Mark Hone]

The plot thickens. Ironically I paid my first ever visit to Busigny on 26th October to visit the grave of Corporal Alfred Smith, the great-great uncle of one of my school battlefield tour regulars, Chris Lees. A pity I didn't know about all this then!

[auchonvillerssomme]

Heres a Requiecourt

[hadfield]

1. Souvenirs?

2. No just posts. Male tanks carried six pounders. As the rest of the tanks at Ramicourt were knocked out in the village outskirts (and the one in the photo still has its six pounders) it would be strange if their guns were dismounted and carried off to act as posts in the cemetery. Certainly far too scarce/expensive to be used in this manner and they'd either stay with the tanks if they were repaired on the spot or hauled off for repair or sent back to the Central workshops for mounting in another tank

3. Yes some did but as I think we've established the men in the grave were almost certainly not tankies

Hi Centurion,

On point (2) I meant six pounder rounds, not the actual guns themselves!

Regards

Brimstone

[Guest geoff501]

Heres a Requiecourt

Looks a little hilly to me. Can you find one for Regnicourt for comparison?

[Mark Hone]

I've got to admit that I'm pretty convinced by Regnicourt. What I thought was a 'u' is clearly an 'n' if compared with the same letter in 'tank' on the inscription, as a Pal kindly pointed out. Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. Keep them coming!

[Guest geoff501]

Daniels and Dreweitt are buried next to each other in IV. B.

Both on the end of a 'half row'. The two graves next to these may be unknowns, since no grave ref has turned up. If this is the case, they may be ruled out.

Also, other half of row has next two casualties for 24th and 27th on the adjacent end.

[centurion]

The only problem with Regnicourt is that tank involvement was minimal. Three tanks being assigned to support, two on one extreme flank and the other on the other extreme flank. I can find no account of these being engaged. The fact that there are tank corps graves in Busigny Cemetery does not of necessity prove that they were killed at Regnicourt as I believe that dead from other engagements are also buried in this cemetery. It is however possible that the photographer visited both places and got the names mixed up

[eirridia]

The tanks were engaged - but whether any crews died is still something that needs to be confirmed.

The Sherwood Foresters in the Great War - WCC Weetman

"Major Robinson's party, after getting to the ridge, pushed on to Regnicourt Village, where they found some of the Leicesters, who had wandered onto our front. Just beyond, one of our tanks had broken down, and had a very rough time before its crew could be rescued."

[At Home Dad]

Hallo all

On the grave photo, what flag is that nailed on the cross?

French or Belgian? Or do I need to go to specsavers?

Kind regards

[eirridia]

Hallo all

On the grave photo, what flag is that nailed on the cross?

French or Belgian? Or do I need to go to specsavers?

I wondered if it was the 'mud, blood and green' of the Tank Corps?

[centurion]

Whichever of the two sites it would seem unlikely that a stenciled 46th Division marker would be put on a Tank Corps grave!

[At Home Dad]

Wormhout (older version: Wormhoudt) is a commune in the Nord department in

northern France.

The town's name is of Germanic origin.

Neighbouring towns and villages :

Ledringhem to the south-west, separated by river Peene Becque

Esquelbecq

[eirridia]

Whichever of the two sites it would seem unlikely that a stenciled 46th Division marker would be put on a Tank Corps grave!

I think that perhaps the marker doesn't indicate the unit that the dead soldiers belonged to, but of the Graves Registration Unit that buried them. Sometime later the DGR&E would need to cross reference the records to establish the names of the fallen - they're not evident on the crosses.

The GRU was more than likely from the IX Corps 46th Division - but I still can't guess what the 17 might be, other than perhaps the grave number.

[At Home Dad]

Has Roclincourt, north of Arras been mentioned yet?

[Guest geoff501]

Further to the above, of the 108 burials at Ramicourt only one is identified as tank corps this being

ANDERSON W

United Kingdom Private Tank Corps 5th Bn. Date of Death: 03/10/1918 Service No: 305173 B.6.

Anderson's neighbours:

B.4 2nd AIF 5/10/18

B.5. 21st AIF 5/10/18

B.6. Anderson 3/10/18

B.7. 2nd KOYLI 3/10/18

B.8. 1st/5th N&D 3/10/18

B.9. Known unto God

[centurion]

I think that perhaps the marker doesn't indicate the unit that the dead soldiers belonged to, but of the Graves Registration Unit that buried them. Sometime later the DGR&E would need to cross reference the records to establish the names of the fallen - they're not evident on the crosses.

The GRU was more than likely from the IX Corps 46th Division - but I still can't guess what the 17 might be, other than perhaps the grave number.

I had understood that by this date GRUs were no longer organised on a divisional basis

[eirridia]

I had understood that by this date GRUs were no longer organised on a divisional basis

I don't know. I know that it changed after November 1918, but I thought it was still Divisions until then.

Does CWGC have the original DGR&E records?

[Guest geoff501]

Rows III. B. and III. D. for Busigny. There are 11 Tank Corps men here. There are 7 others in other rows, but only one or two on any day.

(3rd, 6th, 11, 18th, 24th)

Note the four Tank Corps men in III. D. 7 - III. D. 10. for 08/10/1918

Bingo, perhaps?

III. B.1. Unknown

III. B.2. PRIVATE-HEMPHILL-FORT GARRY HORSE-09/10/1918

III. B.3. PRIVATE-HITCHCOCK-SHERWOOD FORESTERS (NOTTS AND DERBY REGIMENT)-09/10/1918

III. B.4. PRIVATE-FIELD-GLOUCESTERSHIRE REGIMENT-09/10/1918

III. B.5. PRIVATE-WHITE-GLOUCESTERSHIRE REGIMENT-09/10/1918

III. B.6. PRIVATE-DUGGAN-GLOUCESTERSHIRE REGIMENT-09/10/1918

III. B.7. PRIVATE-BRINDLEY-GLOUCESTERSHIRE REGIMENT-09/10/1918

III. B.8. PRIVATE-FARNDON-GLOUCESTERSHIRE REGIMENT-09/10/1918

III. B.9. PRIVATE-HORSFIELD-GLOUCESTERSHIRE REGIMENT-09/10/1918

III. B.10. PRIVATE-WOOLLEY-GLOUCESTERSHIRE REGIMENT-09/10/1918

III. B.11. PRIVATE-CLARKSON-GLOUCESTERSHIRE REGIMENT-09/10/1918

III. B.12. PRIVATE-TIGHE-GLOUCESTERSHIRE REGIMENT-09/10/1918

III. B.13. GUNNER-MCILVEAN-ROYAL GARRISON ARTILLERY-21/10/1918

III. B.14. GUNNER-THOMPSON-ROYAL GARRISON ARTILLERY-21/10/1918

III. B.15. PRIVATE-PATERSON-BLACK WATCH (ROYAL HIGHLANDERS)-18/10/1918

III. B.16. BOMBARDIER-NACEY-ROYAL FIELD ARTILLERY-18/10/1918

III. B.17. GUNNER-KAYE-ROYAL FIELD ARTILLERY-18/10/1918

III. B.18. SAPPER-MCKENZIE-ROYAL ENGINEERS-30/10/1918

III. B.19. PRIVATE-WITHINGTON-NORTH STAFFORDSHIRE REGIMENT-06/10/1918

III. B.20. PRIVATE-FOSSEY-ROYAL SUSSEX REGIMENT-17/10/1918

III. B.21. LANCE CORPORAL-SINFIELD-NORTHAMPTONSHIRE REGIMENT-17/10/1918

III. B.22. SERJEANT-RICHARDS-MACHINE GUN CORPS (INFANTRY)-17/10/1918

III. B.23. PRIVATE-FENSOME-TANK CORPS-17/10/1918

III. B.24. PRIVATE-DOIG-TANK CORPS-17/10/1918

III. B.25. Unknown

III. B.26. SECOND LIEUTENANT-WEBB-MANCHESTER REGIMENT-09/10/1918

III. B.27. LANCE SERJEANT-SHAW-MANCHESTER REGIMENT-04/10/1918

III. B.28. PRIVATE-HARDY-MANCHESTER REGIMENT-11/10/1918

III. B.29. LANCE CORPORAL-LONGSHAW-MANCHESTER REGIMENT-BETWEEN 07/10/1918 AND 09/10/1918

III. B.30. PRIVATE-BUCK-MANCHESTER REGIMENT-04/10/1918

III. B.31. PRIVATE-CORKILL-3RD DRAGOON GUARDS (PRINCE OF WALES' OWN)-09/10/1918

III. B.32. Unknown

III. B.33. PRIVATE-RISPIN-YORKSHIRE REGIMENT-09/10/1918

III. B.34. PRIVATE-BARRY-SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE REGIMENT-12/10/1918

III. B.35. CORPORAL-THOMPSON-SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE REGIMENT-12/10/1918

III. B.36. LANCE CORPORAL-BUCKLEY-SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE REGIMENT-12/10/1918

III. D.1. DRIVER-ASHLEY-ROYAL FIELD ARTILLERY-12/10/1918

III. D.2. PRIVATE-DAVIES-TANK CORPS-08/10/1918

III. D.3. PRIVATE-WILSHAW-MANCHESTER REGIMENT-04/10/1918

III. D.4. PRIVATE-FERRIER-ROYAL WARWICKSHIRE REGIMENT-09/10/1918

III. D.5. PRIVATE-GLOVER-TANK CORPS-08/10/1918

III. D.6. Unknown

III. D.7. PRIVATE-BOLINGBRORE-TANK CORPS-08/10/1918

III. D.8. SERJEANT-SQUIRE-TANK CORPS-08/10/1918

III. D.9. PRIVATE-WILSON-TANK CORPS-08/10/1918

III. D.10. PRIVATE-GODLEY-TANK CORPS-08/10/1918

III. D.11. SHOEING SMITH-CROAD-MACHINE GUN CORPS (CAVALRY)-17/10/1918

III. D.12. SHOEING SMITH-MOFFAT-MACHINE GUN CORPS (CAVALRY)-17/10/1918

III. D.13. LANCE SERJEANT-READ-THE LOYAL NORTH LANCASHIRE REGIMENT-18/10/1918

III. D.14. PRIVATE-PLATT-THE LOYAL NORTH LANCASHIRE REGIMENT-17/10/1918

III. D.15. PRIVATE-EVANS-THE LOYAL NORTH LANCASHIRE REGIMENT-17/10/1918

III. D.16. PRIVATE-MARSHALL-THE LOYAL NORTH LANCASHIRE REGIMENT-17/10/1918

III. D.17. PRIVATE-STEPHENSON-THE LOYAL NORTH LANCASHIRE REGIMENT-17/10/1918

III. D.18. PRIVATE-WALL-THE LOYAL NORTH LANCASHIRE REGIMENT-17/10/1918

III. D.19. PRIVATE-ANDERSON-THE LOYAL NORTH LANCASHIRE REGIMENT-17/10/1918

III. D.20. PRIVATE-BOYLIN-THE LOYAL NORTH LANCASHIRE REGIMENT-17/10/1918

III. D.21. PRIVATE-JACKSON-ESSEX REGIMENT-12/10/1918

III. D.22. PRIVATE-WOOLF-THE LOYAL NORTH LANCASHIRE REGIMENT-17/10/1918

III. D.23. PRIVATE-DUFFY-THE LOYAL NORTH LANCASHIRE REGIMENT-17/10/1918

III. D.24. PRIVATE-WITTENBERG-THE LOYAL NORTH LANCASHIRE REGIMENT-17/10/1918

[centurion]

8/10/1918 was the assault on the Niergnies - La Targette Line in which the US 301 took part. A lot of the tank action was around Brancourt. Whippets and Tank Corps armored cars also took part. However I can see nothing that would relate to the photos under discussion.

[Mark Hone]

I've been through Wormhou(d)t a couple of times (and visited the scene of the massacre of British POWs in May 1940 on my 2000 school tour). Well behind the lines in late 1918!

Here is another photo though with a named location rather nearer to Ramicourt/Regnicourt:

'Dave Jones' lorry on the road to Wassigny, or to be more correct off the same road'.

[Robert Dunlop]

Thanks, Mark. This photograph shows the kind of terrain that I would expect in this area. The closer one gets to the end of the war, the more unlikely is the terrain in the set of tank photos, IMHO. But not impossible.

Robert

[centurion]

The Grave Registration Units were never organised by division. From Feb 1916 they were organised by GHQ as part of the Directorate of Graves Registration & Enquiries (DGR&E) and split into Northern Central and Southern regions, and after May 1917 they became an Army Corps HQ function under an assistant director for each army. They did however liase very closely with the Divisional Burial Officers (often called with a somewhat grisly humour Body Snatchers or Cold Meat Specialists). It was the initially individual battalion's responsibility to clear the battlefield and bury their dead; Each battalion had a Burials Officer as part of the HQ function and they were organised and coordinated by the DBO. The GRUs recorded and registered the burials. A conference held in January 1917 discussed the possibility of having dedicated units for burials (the cavalry were suggested as having little other useful role!) but this was dismissed as being very deleterious to the morale of the units so selected. It was however recognised that having the men who had just fought over a field of battle clear it was just as bad for morale and so burial units were, whenever possible, organised from other units not directly involved in the fighting. It was however also recognised that this could reduce their effectiveness when they in turn were called on to fight – no solution to this quandary was arrived at.

Given this it seems very unlikely that the IX 46 17 refers to a GRU or even a burial unit. I would contend it is a reference to the unit of those buried in the grave. The 17 I think is unlikely to be a plot reference unless the grave is in a cemetery (and quite possibly a small one at that). Any GRU by late 1918 would have a lot more than 17 plots on its books, similarly there would be more than 17 plots in which men of the 46th Division 9th Army were buried. However the number might be recorded in the records of a cemetery along with more information on the identity of the body or bodies.

[eirridia]

I bow to your superior knowledge.