Shropshires and Ox & Bucks

[Yorts]

Hi,

I've been lucky enough to find a very burnt service record in WO363 for a gentleman that I'm interested in. He joined the 3/KSLI at Shrewsbury, going overseas with the 5/KSLI on the 31/8/16.

Question #1: The day before he went overseas he was posted to 'B.O. 205'. What does this mean?

His papers state that he was wounded, receiving a Gun Shot Wound to the Right Foot on the 11/9/16. He was posted back to the depot by the 22nd September.

Question #2: Can anyone provide details of the action in which he was WiA?

He remained at the depot until the 16/3/17, when his overseas service entries notes he went abroad (location illegible). No unit is stated, but a certificate of identity notes 'Ox. & Bucks L.I.' and three defaulters entries 'Ox. & Bucks L. Inf 1 Res. Bn. (India)'. Bangalore is also noted in the location column.

Question #3: Presumeably this is the 1st Garrison Bn. Ox. & Bucks. L. I. which was formed in Portland and then moved to India. Does expert opinion agree?

Thanks in advance,

Alex.

[Annette Burgoyne]

Hi Alex

Can you post his name and K.S.L.I. Regimental number, it may help me find any useful info.

I do not know what 'B.O. 205' stands for. I looked at K.S.L.I. History, and according to it the 5/K.S.L.I., on 11/9/16, returned to the battle area and arrived in camp near Mericourt, there is no mention of being under fire of any kind on this day.

Annette

[Yorts]

Hi,

The man in question is George Thomas Jolly service number 19353. The date 11/9/16 is hard to read. September 1916 is beyond doubt, but the exact date is obscured by a scratch on the microfilm. I showed a few colleagues and family and all believed it to say the 11th. He was posted home on the 22nd, so he must have been wounded between the 1/9/16 and the 22/9/16. I believe the number to be a two digit one, although it is possbile it could be a single digit date.

Perhaps you could also look for any details on the following man:

William Jolly Pte 32476 KSLI

I believe that they might be relatives, but have no evidence to prove it, save for the regimental connection. The name is not that common!

Thanks and Regards,

Alex.

[Annette Burgoyne]

Hi Alex

I’ll will start with the date, after looking at the Regt. History, I would say it is the 15th or 16th of September.

According to the Regimental History the 5/K.S.L.I. were at rest in a village called Vergies from 1st of September to the 11th when it returned to the battle area, arriving in camp near Mericourt. Next day it marched to tents but does not say where. The history goes on to record that the Battalion took part in the Battle of Flers-Courcelette on the 15th September.

The line allotted to the 5/K.S.L.I. was practically straight to Gueudecourt, but as a preliminary movement it had to move around Delville Wood to link up with battalions on its right and left. After passing the Wood the Battalion moved in extended order for about two miles almost without a break. They were held up for the first time slightly north-east of Flers, which was held in some force, and there was a line of field guns and snipes directly in from. The Battalion captured its part of Bull’s Road by 12 noon taking three field guns in the process. At this time troop on the right of K.S.L.I. lost direction which caused the whole attack to be held up.

On the 16th after being relieved by 6/D.C.L.I. and having eleven hours rest in the Montanban area, it returned to the trenches in relief of 8/K.R.R.C. An order to capture Gueudecourt having been cancelled the battalion was relieved and returned to the camp from whence it had started from on the 15th. After this it proceeded to Grand-Rullecourt (no dates are given but it must have been a day or two after relieve).

Casualties given by the Regiment History

For the 15th Sept.

One officer & 34 other ranks killed.

11 officers & 184 other ranks wounded

34 other ranks missing.

For the 16th Sept.

One officer & 2 other ranks killed

8 other ranks wounded.

But Soldiers Died records

For the 15th

Two men killed in Action

For the 16th

50 killed in Action

2 Died of wounds

Soldiers Died made a similar mistake in dates for the 5th Battalion for its attack at Arras in April 1917 (also the CWGC had made the same mistake but thanks to the work of a relative of one of the men killed at Arras the CWGC agreed to change the dates when each mans headstones needs replacing).

I am not sure if William Jolly and George Thomas Jolly are related, I do not have any info. on George Thomas Jolly. His Reg. No. falls amongst men from several different areas most of which were from Shropshire and Hereford. The two men before Georges No. both came from Madeley, Shropshire but I could not say for sure that is where George lived. William Jolly’s Reg. No. falls amongst men from the North of England but there is the odd Shropshire lad dotted near by, so I can not say if they are related.

By the way William was wounded some time in mid 1918, he is recorded in Ludlow Advertiser on 17/8/18 but I do not know his battalion.

Regards

Annette

[hmsk212]

Alex

I have a pair to a Lieutenant in the MGC, Arthur Jolly - another relative ? He was born in Woodford, Essex on 19th December 1892. Called up as Private 3607 24th Middlesex Regiment, commissioned into MGC 24/02/1917. Served with 37th Btn. Lived in Hove, Sussex.

Steve

[Yorts]

Hi,

Annette - thanks so much for your help - you've padded out a significant part of my knowledge about both gentleman. I'm especially interested to note that William Jolly was WiA. I can't thank you enough. Would you be interested if I transcribed some moer details from his service record?

Steve - I'm very interested to hear about Arthur Jolly. If he comes from Woodford he is more likely to be a distant relative of myself than of William and George Thomas. Could you possibly post further details about his career?

Best regards,

Alex.

[hmsk212]

Alex

From WO339 / 760908

Arthur Jolly

Father's occupation - Ship's Chandler

Mothers name - Amy ?

Arthur's occupation - Chartered Accountants Clerk

Born Woodford, Essex 19/12/1892

Living at "Treleaven", 74, Langdale Road, Hove

Called up 14/06/1916

Posted to 24th Middlesex 16/06/1916

Transferred/Posted to 100th Training Reserve Battalion 01/09/1916

MGC Cadet (Pte) attached MGC Officer Cadet Battalion - Bisley 25/10/1916

Discharged on being appointed to a Commission 24/02/1917

- Nothing known until 27/07/1918 - I believe that the PRO missed a page when they photocopied his records but I didn't realise until I got home, I will have to have another look at his file, as it was they photocopied it in A3 instead of A4.

27/07/1918 Arrived France

27/07/1918 Joined Base Depot at Camiers

08/08/1918 To Join 37th Btn

09/08/1918 Joined 37th Btn in the field

25/08/1918 To Temp Lieutenant

20/09/1918 Hospital (NYO Pyrexia)

24/09/1918 PUO

08/10/1918 Invalided to UK, with PUO, aboard Hosptal Ship St David

22/10/1919 Relinquished his temporary commission on completion of service - retained the rank of Lieutenant

Unit last serving with - Attached to Ministry of Labour, Strand.

Steve

[Annette Burgoyne]

Hi Alex

Would you be interested if I transcribed some moer details from his service record

Yes please.

Annette

[Yorts]

Annette -

George Thomas Jolly KSLI - details from attestation papers WO 363:

Address:Brook Cottage, Armitage, Staffs.

Age: 19 years 3 days

Occupation: Waggoner

Enlisted: 22/11/15 at Rugely Staffs.

Father: George William Jolly

Postings:

KLSI depot 22/11/15

3rd KSLI 7/12/15

BO 205 30/8/16

5th KSLI 31/8/16

1st Garrison Bn Ox & Bucks 16/3/17 (Bangalore)

Home 21/2/19

Discharged 30/3/19

Wounded (GSW right foot) ??/9/16

BWM & VM only entitlement.

Only defaulters entry: 13/1/19 breaking curfew.

There are other odds and ends, but as half the records are burnt it reveals nothing useful.

Steve - thanks very much, very interesting. My grandfather served with the MGC, would you like a potted history of his service in return for that you have posted?

Rgds,

Alex.

[hmsk212]

Steve - thanks very much, very interesting. My grandfather served with the MGC, would you like a potted history of his service in return for that you have posted?

Rgds,

Alex.

Hi Alex

Yes please, I am always interested in reading about anything MGC.

Cheers

Steve

[Annette Burgoyne]

Thanks Alex, helps fill in the gaps in my database.

Annette

[Yorts]

Steve,

Apologies for taking so long over the potted history. I'd planned to post it before I moved house, but then the forum was off-line to move servers! Excuses aside, here it is as promised:

My great-grandfather Harry Smith joined the 2nd Battalion Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders in 1907 aged 19, in order to escape from coal mining - a profession which he hated. After basic training at the Stirling castle depot he was posted to South Africa, returning in 1910. His next posting after the depot was to London as part of the ceremonial guard. It was whilst serving here that he met my great-grandmother. He and his friend George Strachan (DOAS whilst serving in the RGA in the UK - see CWGC) dated two sisters, and both subsequently married them. In July 1914 he completed seven years with the colours and passed into the reserve.

Less than a month later he was recalled to the battalion, and two days later was posted to France. He was present with 2/A&SH at Mons, Le Cateau and the retreat to the Marne / advacen to the Seine. During the retreat he lost a shoe in mud (the Argylls wore shoes and spats as opposed to boots and putees) and was unable to replace it for over a week until 'someone who wouldn't need it' provided one form him. The euphamism is his, as he rarely spoke about the war unless his tongue was loosend, and even then he avoid mentioning the dead. He returned to the UK in early 1915 on leave, and was posted to 1/A&SH on his return, beinmg promoted to Corporal.

In spring 1916 he was wounded in action by a shell splinter in the back. This was his second wound, although the first had not warranted his return to the UK. He returned to the UK on a hospital ship, and after a period in hospital was posted to the 3rd Battalion at Stirling. From here he was posted to the 2nd battalion again. Shortly after his arrival back in France he was transferred into the MGC, serving in the 98th Brigade MG Company. He served with the unit in the Somme campaign until shot through the knee on the 7th of July whilst fighting near Ginchy. He returned to the UK and was the first man to have an artificial knee. He was discharged as no longer fit for active service, but the army deemed he was still of value to the war effort and sent him back down the coal mines.

Hope this was of interest to you Steve. I've posted a photo of him below, although it shows him in A&SH uniform, not MGC. If you find out anything more about Mr Jolly then please let me know, as I'm always interested in medals named to Jolly. Equally so if I come across any reference to him whilst researching other Jollys in my family / collection I'll let you know.

Best regards,

Alex.