Celle Camp, Germany

[DDP1955]

Hi Frank and Pete

Thank you so much for finding out all this information for me, it is amazing that I started looking at a POW camp from WW1 and have been able to follow the history of it through to WW2 and beyond! I can see why a comparison to Salisbury Plain was made, a Military dense area that remains a Military dense area through the decades. When I started this thread I was just hoping to find out the location of Celle Lager and some idea of what POW life was like. I've done all that and got so much more!

Fritz

I was born at RAF Wegberg, but my birth was registered at the Consulate at Munchen Gladbach, so I guess Wegberg is close. The RAF camp closed in the early 1990's. Most of my time though was spent at RAF Buttsweillerhof. I remember going to the shops in Buttsweillerhop with my father who spoke fluent german. Never been near Celle to my knowledge, but there is another RAF camp that I've lived on but cannot recall the name of!!! A RAF Brat if ever there was one!

Thanks for the link to info about POW's in WW1, I never had any idea that there was any possibility of taking POW's during this war, but I hadn't consciously thought about it!

Dianne

[egbert]

Dianne, was the other RAF airfield you lived called " Wahn "?

[DDP1955]

Hi Egbert

I cant remember! I'm going to see my dad tommorrow though! He'll know!

I'll ask him the names of the camps in Germany I've lived on, but cant remember. He's 88 and I am currently trying to document his WW2 experience, so he's used to me asking him all sorts of questions relating to the RAF

Dianne

[fritz]

Hello Dianne,

did you investigate Scheuen by Google? If not this link shows its modern military complex. Northeast of Scheuen are the barracks situated. The home of a whole tank brigade.

I am sure just here must have been the POW-camp. Behind the barracks you see the training area. Perhaps 20 km away in the north is following Bergen-Hohne, a great NATO-shooting-range with a very large extension and then only some km more Munster, also a large extented training area, where I had my own military education for one year.

http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&hl=de&a...090637&z=14

Hope it will be of any interest.

Kind regards

Fritz

[DDP1955]

The link shows the modern military complex. Northeast of Scheuen are the barracks, the home of a whole tank brigade. I am sure just here must have been the POW-camp. Behind the barracks you see the training area. Perhaps 20 km away in the north is following Bergen-Hohne, a great NATO-shooting-range with a very large extension and then only some km more Munster, also a large extented training area, where I had my own military education for one year.

http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&hl=de&a...090637&z=14

Hi Fritz

Are you still in the military?

I do find this interesting and it is good to see an ariel view. I am really interested to see how the Celle POW camp has changed over the years and what the site of the POW camp is today. I wonder if there is some sort of museum or commemorative stone there reflecting the history of the site. Its not likely I will get to see it anytime soon, although I am planning to visit Germany sometime in the next year or so (to see the place where I was born). It would be interesting to know if anybody turns up a museum or similar!

Dianne

[fritz]

Hello Dianne,

just had to recognize that Bundeswehr had left Scheuen. The barracks are for sale!

Since 1989 when the east-west-confrontation finished the military situation changed in a breath-taking speed. Bundeswehr is halved to a force of 200 000 men. They have new tasks now for example hunting pirates and they changed their structures. In comparision with my time as soldier it is a new army. No, I am not longer in the army. That was an affair in my younger years, in the late sixties.

It may be a chance for you to contact this museum, called “Garnison Museum”. It will be possible they can tell you an (hobby)expert knowing the POW-camp Celle Lager.

http://www.celle.de/index.phtml?La=1&f...439.1⊂=0

and this link may be usefull too for this task.

http://www.celle.de/index.phtml?La=1&f...407.1⊂=0

My own Grandfather was POW in England for 2 ½ years. I contacted a newspaper in Northamptonshire and they found two persons with informations about my GF´s camp. Amazing great number of informations with maps and pictures and motivated correspondantes.

It was a great success for me and now I know a lot about circumstances of my GF´s captivity!!

I wish you will have the same fortune.

Best wishes to you

Fritz

[egbert]

Dianne , google for "Celle Kriegsgefangenenlager " (spelling must be correct) and you find more links/hints

[Doug Johnson]

At last; this is Scheuen;

In October 1918, Scheuen-Celle, by then an officers camp commanded by Oberstleutnant Schultze, contained 2 929 Italian officers and 581 Italian men. No other nationality being present (Doegen).

This is the report from the american Embassy;

Scheuen by Celle

When Mr. Russel and I [Mr Jackson] visited the camp it contained over 9,000 prisoners of war, with accommodation for a total of about 10,000. Of this number there were 118 British soldiers, housed in groups in several barracks. The camp is on sandy soil in pine woods, a few miles out of Celle, and has been healthy. Its construction and organization is similar to most of the soldier-prisoner camps in Germany. The men are housed in wood barracks, having a small room at one end for the accommodation of non-commissioned officers. The British non-commissioned officers muster their men and exercise some general control over them, but the French and Belgian non-commissioned officers are in charge of the barracks and designate the men who are to do fatigue duty. In consequence, it is claimed, that British soldiers are detailed to such work more frequently than those of other nationalities. On speaking of this to the commandant, he promised at once to arrange so that a more fair division of work should be made in the future. Otherwise the men made no complaint with regard to any discrimination against them. As the British are in a minority here, as usual, their wishes are not considered as much as those of other nationalities, and they have no representative in the camp post office. The Commandant, who seemed very accessible and ready to do anything in his power to make conditions more satisfactory, said that he would now assign a British soldier to it in order to facilitate the delivery of mail and parcels. The existence of this camp had been unknown to the Embassy until recently and no “relief” had been sent to it. Several of the British soldiers wore parts of Belgian or French uniforms, and some of them complained of insufficient underwear. It appeared, however, that they had not made their wants known, and the Commandant said that shirts, etc,., of which there a large supply in the camp- would be given to them at once. The food is the usual ration, and the midday soup was good and nutritious. Complaints are made in regard to the quantity, which is apparently very carefully controlled so that the men get their full allowance. In the camp there are a catholic chapel, a reading room and a theatre. There are also work rooms for Tailors, shoemakers, etc., There had been a number of civilians (merchant sailors) in the camp, but most of them were sent to Ruhleben some time ago. Three are still in the lazarette, but are to be transferred as soon as convalescent. The bathing facilities are good, and the latrines are satisfactory, arrangements having been made to flush them as often as is necessary – at least daily.

April 13, 1915

Doug

[Doug Johnson]

And this is the report on the retired officers' camp;

Report by Mr. C. Russell on the Conditions of internment at Schloss Celle

On Tuesday, March 13th, 1915, Mr Jackson and I visited Schloss Celle (Hanover), where 226 civilians, only about 30 of whom are English, are interned – the others are Russians, French and Belgians, and are chiefly civilians of the better class, who, for this reason, have not been sent to Concentration camps at Holzminden and Ruhleben.

Schloss Celle is a large and attractive castle, formerly belonging to the Kings of Hanover situated on the top of a small hill, but not removed from the town. It is built around a court which is open to the use of the persons interned, as are the paths immediately encircling the building. There is, however, no large place for exercise, and a number of persons complained of this fact, asking if the whole park could be open to their use. We were informed that this was impractical and could not be arranged. Inside the building the interned civilians are housed in bedrooms containing from 6 to 14 beds, and in certain cases one bed is built over the other. The rooms all have two windows, and though crowded do not appear to be overcrowded, as there is always room for a centre table, a number of chairs, shelves and places for keeping books, clothes, etc., In all the rooms which we visited the windows were open and there seemed to be plenty of light and fresh air.

There is a large dining hall and a smoking room as well. The sanitary arrangements are good, but the facilities for bathing are limited, there being only one bath tub and one shower bath.

There were complaints in regard to two matters, the first, as I have already stated, limited space for exercise and recreation, and the second the food. In almost all cases the persons interned receive money from their people, and are therefore able to supplement the rations provided by buying additional supplies. The ration is the same as that supplied at the other camps, and, as is the case in other camps, the majority of Englishmen do not like the bread which is offered, but this cannot be changed.

Nearly everyone with whom we spoke said that the Commandant, a Captain of the Reserve, was doing everything in his power to make their existence as pleasant as possible. I think there is no question of the fact that the civilians at Schloss Celle are interned under far better conditions than those prevailing at any of the camps for officers which I have visited. They are living in a most attractive building, which is primarily a place of residence and not, as in the other instances, one devoted in ordinary times to some other purpose and owing to war converted into a place of internment. There were fewer complaints than at any of the places which I have visited, and the entire atmosphere seemed to be as cheerful and healthy as could be expected under the circumstances.

C. RUSSELL.

Doug

[DDP1955]

Thank you so much Doug for scanning the reports and especially for uploading the image

The reports on this thread by people who were there and saw the conditions and especially those that lived them, have really brought this camp to life for me

Thank you also Fritz and Egbert for adding additional information

This is the first time I have researched a Prisoner of War Camp - the reports I have read on the TNA and those posted here have been a real eye opener

Thank you all, for letting me look into this camp!

Dianne

[Doug Johnson]

Forgot to mention that there are three photographs of Scheuen in "Die Kriegsgefangenen in Deutchland", they show the canteen (basically a small shop), artists at work, and a stage performance. Scanning is difficult though.

Doug

[fritz]

Hello Doug,

well done. For myself I must say that I have shot all my powder.

The following link shows a building that still existed in the time of WW1. At least it was the home of British soldiers.

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http...l%3Dde%26sa%3DN

No more news available.

Kind regards

Fritz

[Guest MisterH]

Hi Oli

Thanks for this

Grandad's brother was known to have a wound to the groin on 23/10/1914, so presumably an easy-ish capture as he wouldn't have been able to get away. He was reported as missing from the 1st Battalion, Chesshire Regiment on the same day. I have no idea where this took place. From 23/10/1914 there was no information. On 13/3/1916 he was reported as being a prisoner of war at Celle Camp. He was realeased from the Prisoner of war camp on 26/12/1918. On 27/12/1918 he was sent home to Ripon Camp, North Yorkshire and transferred to the 'Z' list on 25/03/1919

The service records have very little info about his time in captivity (2 sentences) but the camp is described as Celle Lager not Celle Schloss. Although on capture he would have been in a hospital unit, due to his wound, but could have been transferred elsewhere once he recovered from the wound I guess

Dianne

Hi Dianne

My grandfather was also in the Cheshire Regiment at the same time. I believe that he was with D company when he was captured at Violaines on 22/10/1914. This action has a brief entry in 'The History of the Cheshire Regiment'. It is possible that your grandfathers brother was injured in the same action.

This information was supplied sevral years ago by the very helpful staff at the Cheshire Regiment Museum in Chester. You could try contacting them to see if they can supply additional information;

Cheshire Military Museum

The Castle

Chester

CH1 2DN

The curator at the time (2000) was Major (Retd) JEH Ellis BA

The 2 researchers were;

Maj (Retd) AFW Astle

G Crump Esq (This is the person I was assisted by)

The telephone number was 01244 327 617

I hope this helps,

Keith

[DDP1955]

My grandfather was also in the Cheshire Regiment at the same time. I believe that he was with D company when he was captured at Violaines on 22/10/1914. This action has a brief entry in 'The History of the Cheshire Regiment'. It is possible that your grandfathers brother was injured in the same action.

This information was supplied sevral years ago by the very helpful staff at the Cheshire Regiment Museum in Chester. You could try contacting them to see if they can supply additional information;

Cheshire Military Museum

The Castle

Chester

CH1 2DN

The curator at the time (2000) was Major (Retd) JEH Ellis BA

The 2 researchers were;

Maj (Retd) AFW Astle

G Crump Esq (This is the person I was assisted by)

The telephone number was 01244 327 617

Hi Keith

Thanks for this! My next job is to find out exactly what was going on in the war when my man was captured ... I havent done that yet!

Dianne

[matthew lucas]

anyone been to the Celle garrison mueum in the town? if not if you are in the area you are in for a treat, thge only one of its kind in Germany! i take all my anne frank tour groups there

matt

[fritz]

Just recognized some pics of Lager Scheuen near Celle.

And this two...

[Marco]

During World War II the infamous Bergen-Belsen concentration camp was located about 11 miles north of Celle. It was a POW camp before it became a concentration camp, but I have not been able to ascertain whether the WW II POW/concentration camp was the same facility as the Great War camp at or near Celle.

Probably not since the WW2 camp had almost no facilities at all, not even barraks (for everyone). That is how the Germans Nazi's killed people there. On display in the memorial building are ww2 pictures showing people sleeping in holes covered with branches and a German caption saying something along the lines of 'Cultural advance'.

Regards,

Marco

[NickKent]

I have just purchased a POW Camp Collection and one is from Cellelager sent in 1915

from a Prisoner from Belgium interned in the Camp in F Barracks

[NickKent]

Sorry..i could not get the card to load any smaller with all the contents on.

when i do manage to sort it, i will post the back and also the Giessen Camp

letter from the Commandant in the other section

[Guest]

On 12/18/2008 at 14:40, DDP1955 said:

One of my relatives was unfortunate enough to be captured by the Germans, whilst wounded on the Somme, and ended up in this camp. Does anybody know anything about this POW camp. All I know is that it is near Berlin

I'll be gratefull for any information

Dianne

 

 

[Guest]

If you search Ge fengewenlager Celle you can find a brief history and some photos. My Grandfather was sent there although on the Telegram informing of his capture it said Cellelagez, it's just north of Hanover. I've been trying to find where he was captured without success.

[SiegeGunner]

1 hour ago, 8511 said:

If you search Ge fengewenlager ...

 

Gefangenenlager ...

[momsirish]

In post#42 Marco said    "Probably not since the WW2 camp had almost no facilities at all, not even barraks (for everyone). That is how the Germans Nazi's killed people there. On display in the memorial building are ww2 pictures showing people sleeping in holes covered with branches and a German caption saying something along the lines of 'Cultural advance'.

Regards,

Marco"  

 

As a young soldier my unit went through Belsen in 1958 and saw nothing but debris, and flat land in the area.  We were told as I recall that this was where the concentration camp was.   So I agree there probably was nothing there for a long time afterwards as we were there only 13 years after the war.

Carl

[Stoppage Drill]

Hello Momsirish

 

Bergen-Belsen was built as a PoW camp and the huts there looked similar to those at Celle-Scheuen.

 

The huts remained when B-B became a KZ-Lager later in the War, and were burned down rather spectacularly after the British had cleared the camp in 1945, by Wasps of Support Company, 4th Bn Somerset Light Infantry (11th Armoured Division).

 

My uncle was there.

 

There were some simple memorials in place during the 1950s, plus concrete hut bases and the mounded mass graves.