AEF in France

[paul guthrie]

For a much more than decent map in English get American Battlefields Monuments Commission 1938 American Armies & Battlefields In Europe, you can find it not too expensive I think. There are three large fold out maps , 1 is MA they are absolutely beautiful! I also think the scale is such that there is an attempt to magnify what the US did.

I agree with Christina on the maps, it's hard to believe the % of WW1 books with that fault, quite high.

I just checked and for $41 you can get a new one, CD too if you prefer http://www.bookstore.gpo.gov

The text is useful today, all the roads mentioned still exist, or almost, but don't look for any critical analysis, there is none, and regular divisions get much better treatment than National Guard, they wrote it!

[Gyrene]

You are not in a position to judge til you read them.

Haven't you already done that with Lengel's book?

[paul guthrie]

Haven't you already done that with Lengel's book?

Of course not, I have said nothing negative about it. Try reading the posts again.

[Chris_Baker]

Actually "American Armies & Battlefields in France" is one of the best you could lay your hands on. I agree with Paul that Laurence Stallings work still holds good too. I can't get on with Marix Evans books at all - lightweight in my opinion.

[paul guthrie]

It's actually American Armies & Battlefields In Europe because US forces saw action in Belgium too and a token few served in Italy and some in Russia. There are 368 US dead at In Flanders Field Cemetery at Waregem. 35th 91st Divs fought there November 9 to 11. There is a monument to 27th & 30the at Vierstraat near Kemmel where they fought with the British . They were with the British for their training and all their action. They attacked the Hindenburg line beside Australian troops too near Riqueval in France.

[Christina Holstein]

The ABMC book is certainly the best but if you buy it, make sure you also buy the Order of Battle. I've used mine time and time again.

Christina

[Gyrene]

Of course not, I have said nothing negative about it. Try reading the posts again.

I have read them. You called the promotional blurb crap and said that you doubt there is anything new.

[paul guthrie]

The promotional blurb is in fact crap and that does not reflect on the book. As far as whether it's likely there is anything new I can only suggest - again - you read what is there now after the passing of about 90 years and careful research by two PhD historians, one whose father was there and retired as a Colonel after service in WW2, Korea and 4 tours in Vietnam. After doing so you will be better qualified to judge. You are in the rather difficult position of one promoting the superiority of a book you have not read over two others you have not read. There are those who would not attempt that.

[4thGordons]

I'm eagerly anticipating this book.

Argonne

I just got an advanced reader copy of this (Edward Lengel : To Conquer Hell)

435 pages,+23 of notes, +12 of bibliography

as an "advanced reader copy" mine does not have maps or pictures included, and frustratingly it does not have the list of maps either:

I should have some time tonight and tomorrow to get stuck into it so I might be able to post some first impressions early in the week.

My bookshelf on the AEF (general rather than unit specific) and in no particular order:

Kennedy: Over Here: The First World War and American Society

Braim: The Test of Battle

Keene: Doughboys, The Great War and the Remaking of America

Farwell: Over There: The United States in the Great War

Halas: Doughboy War, The American Expeditionary Force in WWI

Eisenhower: Yanks, The Epic Story of the American Army in WWI

Coffman: The War to End All Wars, The American Military Experience in WWI

Mead: Doughboys, America and the First World War

Zeiger: In Uncle Sam's Service, Women Workers with the American Expeditionary Force

Harries: The Last Days of Innocence America at War 1917-19

Stallings: The Doughboys

Palmer: America in France

ABMC : A Guide to the American Battlefields in Europe

Chris

PS one book that I have but would NOT recommend is America in WWI: The Story and Photographs (Goldstein and Maihafer) which I thought was very poor in terms of originality, accuracy (esp of captions)

[paul guthrie]

I have an email from Ed Lengel author of To Conquer Hell, he makes some interesting points which I will share.

He says the promotional material which I criticized is over the top, he did not write it. He even describes it as crappy and it is since it ignores the work of Braim and Ferrell.

He describes Paul Braim's work as groundbreaking - I agree - and had it beside him throughout his work. He thinks very highly of Bob Ferrell - it would be strange if an historian did not - but thinks his book on the collapse of the 35th Division in this battle is much better than his book on the entire battle. Others share this view.

He says he has greater emphasis on the common soldier and company, battalion and regiment level and was able to obtain unpublished material from descendants,, so there will be some new material.

He says his maps are excellent and that's sure welcome. They are new.

[4thGordons]

I have an email from Ed Lengel author of To Conquer Hell, he makes some interesting points which I will share.

He says the promotional material which I criticized is over the top, he did not write it. He even describes it as crappy and it is since it ignores the work of Braim and Ferrell.

He describes Paul Braim's work as groundbreaking - I agree - and had it beside him throughout his work. He thinks very highly of Bob Ferrell - it would be strange if an historian did not - but thinks his book on the collapse of the 35th Division in this battle is much better than his book on the entire battle. Others share this view.

He says he has greater emphasis on the common soldier and company, battalion and regiment level and was able to obtain unpublished material from descendants,, so there will be some new material.

He says his maps are excellent and that's sure welcome. They are new.

I am about 140 pages into this, I must admit to mixed feeling so far, mostly stylistic.

There is a minor but rather conspicuous technical error in the opening section which I thought I might email Dr Lengel about becuase it could perhaps be corrected prior to the full publication run. As I noted above, my copy does not have the illustrations or the maps so I cannot comment on those - the bibliography is comprehensive and useful (and the short intro to it makes many of the points you cite above)

Chris

[Guest edlengel]

Actually "American Armies & Battlefields in France" is one of the best you could lay your hands on. I agree with Paul that Laurence Stallings work still holds good too. I can't get on with Marix Evans books at all - lightweight in my opinion.

I will disagree with both of you about Stallings. Yes, he served in the M-A and lost a limb there. Yes, he was a bang-up writer. But he makes a lot of major mistakes--saying, for example, that the 37th Division took Montfaucon; no, it was the 79th. Doughboys is a fun read, but unreliable IMHO.

Lord, I hope I didn't make mistakes like that in my book!

Ed Lengel

[Gyrene]

You are in the rather difficult position of one promoting the superiority of a book you have not read over two others you have not read. There are those who would not attempt that.

And you have already judged the book as redundant when you haven't read it so don't sling your stones at others when you have your own biases...

[paul guthrie]

I agree with Ed Lengel that Robert Ferrell's book on 35th Division Collapse of the Missouri Kansas Division is better than America's Deadliest Battle about entire Meuse Argonne battle though it's good also. It is terribly short of maps, nearly nothing, but really good. It dumps all over Pershing and division commander Traub and artillery commander Berry who said airplanes are no damn good. They replaced both brigade commanders and other top staff within a week of the start of the battle. It was a National Guard Division and regulars had a very low opinion of them though 42d was one of the best performing US Divisions.

The account is good enough that with modern maps I hope to spend several days walking this one division. It's area was north from Vauquois to the east of Aire River toward Exermont, Fleville etc. It was withdrawn after 5 days.

Very interesting account.