Otto Albert HEINRICH, British soldier WW1

[VivP]

Otto Albert HEINRICH was my father's oldest brother, b 1892, Bath. His nine brothers and sisters are now all dead.

My grandpa wrote that he was 'discharged 7th March 1916 as being no longer physically fit for war service'. On the family memorial in Bellotts Road, Twerton, Bath, it just says he died Jan 1922.

I don't know what regiment he was in. The next brother, Arthur Frederick HEINRICH, I found in WO 372 - in the Middlesex Regiment as a private. Rumour says Arthur was in the Ambulance Corps. Their home was very near the Lower Bristol Road, where, I've read, the Prince Alberts were recruiting.

One of Otto's sisters said - when she was over 90 - that 'it took grandma over three weeks to get Otto back from Brighton', so presumably he had been overseas. She also said 'we had him at home and looked after him until he died', but his death certificate is not in Bath Record Office, according to Colin Johnstone. Auntie Flora also said that Otto had been hit on the head by a cricket ball - when did they play cricket? - and that Otto decided to learn Hebrew to read the Bible, which he did.

Putting these bits together, I believe Otto must have gone mad. I also believe he committed suicide.

Is it possible to find out where he served, and in what regiment, and which hospitals he was in?

Any ideas very gratefully received.

VivP

a niece who never knew him

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Viv

I can't help directly but this may give you a lead.

1) If as you suspect you Uncle went mad he may have been a patient at the Somerset County Asylum at Wells. He could have died there rather than Twerton/Bath.

2) The Bath Reference Library in the Podium Shopping Centre holds copies of the Bath Chronicle (published daily) on microfilm. You may find a report of his death on the 1922 film, particularly if it was suicide. This may refer to his war service.

Facilities for copies from microfilm are available at the library.

3) The Drill Hall of the 4th.Batt SLI was in Lower Bristol Road.

Dave

[VivP]

Dave

Thankyou very much for replying to such a vague question!

I shall contact the Somerset County Asylum - they are trying to protect their graveyard. Otto's family memorial is just that, a memorial erected when his mother died in 1954, so his grave could be - anywhere - but will try SCA first.

I can no longer get out to go looking in fiches of newspapers - but know some people who might do me a favour!

Shall also investigate the SLI book site at www.lightinfantry.org.uk/sli/book.htm

Once again, thankyou for giving me some really helpful suggestions. If I find him, I'll let you know!

VivP

[Garde Grenadier]

Otto Albert HEINRICH was my father's oldest brother, b 1892, Bath.

Hello, if you don't mind me asking: is your family of German origin? The name certainly sounds like it. Do you know which part of Germany it might come from?

Regards.

Daniel

[VivP]

Hello Daniel,

Of course I don't mind!

My grandpa, Otto Friedrich HEINRICH, was from Kemberg, Saxony, b 1859. The family lived in a big house on Leipzigerstrasse, which is still there. They were kappelmeisteren. I'm sorry, but they didn't come from Westphalia! They had been in Kemberg for generations. Grandpa was a violinist, and travelled Europe, and went as far as New York, before marrying a girl from Dorset in 1891.

They moved to Bath, and grandpa played for the Pump Room Orchestra until WW1. They had ten children. Otto Albert was their eldest child. My father, the seventh, never spoke about him. Grandpa is supposed to have said 'But you can't fight in the war - you'll be fighting your cousins' - and I suppose that was true. It is really unbelievably sad.

Two of the younger children were in Germany, as it had become, just before war broke out, and had a very hard time getting home to England. In Twerton during WW1 the family was persecuted by the English. Grandpa had been far too busy to become naturalised - but he wasn't interned.

I'm sorry I can't help with your people. Ich sprech nicht deutsch!

auf weidersehen,

VivP

[Garde Grenadier]

Hello VivP,

thanks a lot for answering my question and telling me about the fate of your family during the Great War. I'm sure it must have been a very difficult and hard time for them.

When I researched my ancestor's fates I discovered how difficult the times were over here - if you are interested take a look at my articles on Tom Morgan's Hellfire Corner.

http://www.fylde.demon.co.uk/welcome.htm#CONTENTS

Viele Grüße und alles Gute!

Daniel

[VivP]

Daniel

I went to your stories, but couldn't bear to read them. Sie sind allzu traurig. Is that the way to say it? But even today, people are still fighting wars. What will happen to the human race, if we don't learn lessons from such tragedies?

unglucklich,

VivP

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Viv

I work not far away from Bath Library. I'll see what I can find out for you.

My Paternal Grandparents lived in Twerton (Shophouse Road) as did my parents for a short period - during which I was born!!

I remember Granddad insisting on the full name of the village being used - Twerton-on-Avon.

Dave

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Viv

A quick lunch-time vists to Bath Library yielded the following 2 entries:

BATH CHRONICLE Saturday 4 February 1922

Deaths

HEINRICH, Otto Albert on 28 January 1922 aged 29. Beloved eldest son of Otto and Fanny Heinrich of 5 Victoria Terrace, Oldfield Park, Bath.

Old Edwardians Death

'Many Bath Old Edwardians will regret to learn of the death on Saturday last, at the early age of 29 of Mr. Otto Heinrich the elder son of Mr. & Mrs. Heinrich of Victoria Terrace, Oldfield Park.'

'Mr. Heinrich attended King Edward's School in 1904 and left it after holding the position of a school monitor in 1911.'

' He was of a very quiet disposition and was held in high respect by contemporary Edwardians.'

'After leaving school he became an Assistant Master at a Birmingham Private School, later joining the Army when War broke out.'

'His military career was however short for he was invalided home owing to a disablement sustained during military training from which he never recovered.'

'His early death will be lamented by all who came into contact with him and the many Bathonians who will recall the association of his father with the former Pump room Orchestra.'

I checked later issues of the Chronicle but could not find any further mentions.

Dave

[VivP]

Thankyou very much, Dave, for all your work on my behalf. That was very kind of you.

This is Otto. 5 Victoria Terrace was the family home for the twelve of them. It's still there.

I shall post a message on a Somerset list to find out what sort of school King Edward's was.

Auntie Flora did say the knock on the head was during training, but this didn't make much sense to me. So my ideas about suicide are probably wrong. I did contact the Somerset County Asylum, but have not heard from them yet.

So, it's off to Birmingham (online) to find out what I can about private schools there. I had been wondering what he'd been up to after school finished. Presumably he joined up in Birmingham ... Otherwise, I shall have to wait until the 1911 census comes out! In your experience, have you any idea what kind of 'disablement' would mean that someone would never recover, but could earn a living as an assistant master - but only for six years?

Have found Shophouse Road on my map, but don't know much about Bath or Twerton. My father never called it Twerton on Avon, though!

I'm unbelievably grateful.

VivP

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Viv

No problem - this is KE School.

http://www.kes.bath.sch.uk/

Dave

[pat]

Viv

fascinating story. You could send off for his death cert from the Office of National Statistics www.statistics.gov.uk/registration. You can order it online and they post it to you. It costs £7 I think.

You need the register reference which is:

District: Wells, volume: 5a page: 642

(Heinrich, Otto A, age 28 - Jan-Mar quarter of 1922)

(I found these details on www.1837online.com by the way.)

The death cert will give a cause of death but of course it might not tell you much. In those days if it was suicide the doctor might have drawn a veil over it and put some vaguer cause of death (eg heart failure) on the cert. Also, it is most unlikely to tell you anything about the accident with the cricket ball.

good luck anyway

Pat

[Brigantian]

Viv

Pat makes good point about obtaining a copy of your uncle’s death certificate.

Many certificates are quite bland but others can be very informative.

If your uncle died accidentally or by suicide a Coroner’s Inquest should have been held. If so the findings may be summarised in the ‘cause of death’ section. Although space is limited a detailed account may be given.

At the moment certificates ordered online take about 10 - 12 days to arrive.

If you do decide to obtain a copy please post details.

Regards

Mark

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Viv

I've had a thought - and it is only a thought - on the cricket ball incident.

When I was younger I played some club cricket and played in one fixture against Roundway Hospital Staff Cricket Club. RH being the Wiltshire County Asylum.

The cricket pitch was in the middle of the Hospital grounds and patients with permission to be outside were allowed to watch the match.

I am aware that a similar club and ground location existed at Wells.

It is possible that Otto was a spectator at a match and was struck by a ball crossing the boundary.

Dave

[Clive Maier]

... Putting these bits together, I believe Otto must have gone mad. I also believe he committed suicide. ...

VivP,

I am interested in Anglo-German experiences as you can probably guess from my name. My Uncle Oscar was also with the Middlesex Regiment and was killed in Delville Wood. He was born in Nuremburg.

I have tried to follow your story about Otto Heinrich but I have failed. I don’t see anything in your post that establishes insanity, suicide or overseas service. Have I missed something? I must have. And who is Colin Johnstone?

By the way, do you know about the Anglo-German Family History Society?

[VivP]

Dear everyone

I don't know who to thank first, now!

Pat:

Thankyou very much indeed for the ONS reference. Have sent off for the certificate. I suspect that, as you say, the cause of death will be vague. On the other hand, it may be precise. Who knows? Will have to wait and see.

Brigantian:

Yes, will post details when the certificate arrives, even if they are not revealing. I still don't know if Otto ever got to the 'real war', if he was injured when training ... see below, where Clive Maier raises a point I simply hadn't thought of.

HERITAGE PLUS:

Thanks for the King Edward School link. Grandpa ended up owning three houses and an orchard in Bath and Twerton before war broke out, so they must have been comfortably off then, and able to afford decent schooling for their oldest child - until the war began. Your cricketing ideas are interesting, and need investigating. Otto does look like a cricket player, to my strictly non-cricketingeyes. He also looks bookish.

Clive:

Arthur Frederick, the second son, my uncle, was later known as Clive! I loved him very much.

The insanity part is from something else Auntie Flora said. The suicide part I prefer not to talk about. Thankyou for looking laterally at this problem. The overseas part is because grandma had to collect Otto from Brighton - but have I got the wrong end of the stick here? Brighton is hardly a big port, is it? Otto may never have left England after all. Perhaps he was doing his training near Brighton? So does 'later joining the Army when War broke out' mean he joined up, and was training, was hurt, and never got into the war proper? If so, this thread doesn't belong on this forum, does it?

Colin Johnstone (I hope I've remembered the spelling correctly) was the registrar of Bath RO a couple of years ago. And yes, I've exchanged several emails with Jenny Tovey of the Anglo-German FHS, not about Otto, but his father, Otto Friedrich. Will have a good nose round the A-G FHS site when I have time, but Otto Albert was English.

Thankyou all very much indeed.

Viv

[Clive Maier]

VivP,

Your phrase “Putting these bits together” made me think that all the evidence was in your post but there is more as I should have realised. The idea was to test the conjectures. When one piles one conjecture upon another, it is all too easy to arrive at entirely the wrong conclusion.

What’s certainly right is that Otto belongs on this forum. It does not matter that he may not have gone abroad or seen combat. The forum is about all things Great War and that includes civilian and social matters like the prejudice my family and yours encountered.

Brighton is on the coast but it is not a port so I suggest Otto’s presence there can’t provide any evidence of overseas service one way or the other.

Are you a member of the Anglo-German Family History Society? I ask because I have often wondered whether it is worth joining up.

[VivP]

Hello Clive

Searching through this forum, and others, is disturbing. But must plough on. I've tried in the past to find out about Otto, and each time have had to give up.

I am interested in your family's experiences of prejudice. Have emailed Chris to see if it's allowed. He says yes, and to put it in Chit Chat. Will you join me?

I never joined the A-G FHS, because I'm attempting to trace my family history, and Otto's Dorset mother's line is the one I've chosen, thinking it would be the easiest! Once you start to trace your family history you have to be prepared for an endless slog.The Heinrich family were traced back to Gottfried, b c 1690, Pretzsch, Saxony, by my oldest cousin, who had the time, the money, and the German, to do this.

There is one member, Hugh Lodge, who is/was looking for Maier from Steinbach, Schwarbisch Hall, Wurttemberg (1800's - 1900's). Last updated 2001!

regards,

Viv

[VivP]

Well, the certificate came today (thankyou, Pat), but I'm none the wiser. There's no mention of any injury in training for the army.

Details:

When and where died:

28th January 1922 Lunatic Asylum Wells

Name and surname:

Otto Albert Heinrich

Sex:

Male

Age: 28

Occupation: "of 5 Victoria Trrace, Twerton on Avon (thankyou, Dave), Bath UD. School teacher"

Cause of death: Tuberculosis of lungs over 2 months. No P.M. Certified by JEP Shera FRCP

Signature, description and residence of informant: JJA Reilly? acting superintendent Lunatic Asylum Wells

When registered:

8th Feb

Signature of registrar: illegible

Matt Dixon very kindly did a day's look-ups for me, and found that Otto had been an assistant master, teaching German, at King Edward VI school in Sparkhill, Birmingham, 1912-1914. He had been lodging with a Mrs VK Thornwell.

What was a man who had been comfortably off doing in a paupers' asylum? If his parents had been unable to cope, surely there was somewhere, or someone, nearer and private in Bath? Of course, perhaps, so soon after the War, with their Saxon surname, his parents were not well off. But his father still owned three houses and an orchard, and was later able to pay for Arthur Frederick to go to Bristol University and become an engineer.

Dr Shera was the superintendent at Wells Lunatic Asylum 1919 - 1924. So the part about going mad is true, but the suicide part must be wrong. I'm no nearer finding out which regiment he joined, and where, and what happened betwen 1914 and 1922 than I was before!

Any interpretations of this certificate, would be very welcome, and so would ideas about which regiment he may have joined, and where. It would be satisfying to know what happened to this half-trained, would-be British soldier, who was our unknown uncle.

VivP

[pat]

Viv

I'm glad you got the certificate. At least it rules out suicide. Oddly enough, I've just had a look in the Medal index cards on-line (that would be the best way to identify their regiments) but I can't find any Heinriches - not even Arthur who you have found in the PRO.

Pat

[VivP]

Pat,

After everyone's efforts, I'm still no nearer finding out what happened to Otto between 1914 and 1921, except that 'No voluntary patients could be admitted to any psychiatric hospital until 1931 when the 'Mental Treatment Act' came into operation.' (http://www.glensidemuseum.org.uk) I've been to and fro on the The Long, Long Trail till my eyes are crossed.

If I could find where Otto joined up, surely that would help to find out which regiment he was training in, and where he had his accident? I see that brothers could and did join the same regiment.

Arthur Frederick Heinrich (Clive, to us) b 1896, Twerton was in WO 372 at the PRO several years ago, when I was able to get about.

Name: Heinrich, Arthur F.

Corps: Middx R

Rank: Private

Regtl no: G/311211

Roll: E/1/102820

Page 3375

This was in the WW1 Medal Index Cards. I have no idea what it means. I wonder if someone could explain? According to some notes of grandpa Arthur/Clive was in the Army for two years, but a book of BTH apprentices which had him in, said Army 1917-1920, and BSc (Eng) Bristol - no dates.

Our family is very long lived. None of us has lung problems! Oh, well, back to the drawing board ...

VivP

[VivP]

Pat,

I went through the online Medal Rolls, and found a completely different man under G/311211! Must have left out something of vital importance when I was making my notes. The PRO was very daunting to a newcomer. Mind you, they do say only 25% of H's are online yet. It is very frustrating. But I know Arthur F is there - somewhere.

I'm much more concerned about Otto, who never got to the war, except possibly in his mind

VivP

[pat]

Viv

thanks for the updates. I'm sure you'll get a breakthrough eventually but I can see how frustrating it is. Good luck.

Pat

[fatbob]

It's very interesting to read about Twerton as I live in Bath and have done for he last few years.

When my wife and I moved here we thought we had no family connections to the area until my wife's grandmother showed us a postcard of Twerton-upon-Avon Post Office dating back to the early 1900's.

My wife's family are from the Cotswolds (Blockley) and the story was that one male relative had travelled to Bath looking for work, he ended up as a Postman in Twerton.

It seems strange that there is a (maybe tenious) connection that my wife's family member may have delivered your families post!

By the way if you would like any photo's taking of any parts of Bath I would consider it an honour, weather and work permitting.

Fatbob

[VivP]

Thanks for that, Pat.

Bob,

What a kind suggestion. It's such a lovely place, isn't it!

Interesting about your wife's postman connection. In those days postmen and women really dressed up warmly. Perhaps he delivered all those official letters from the Enemy Debts Office in London, which put a 'charge' on grandpa's property after the Treaty of Versailles.

I know what the house looks like, but an up-to-date photo would be nice. More importantly, a photo or scan of the family memorial in Bellot's Road cemetery would be really appreciated, if you can get there. I haven't been able to get down since I put my father's ashes in it in early 1994, and planted some snowdrops and daffodils. We had two cousins in Bristol who were supposed to look after the memorial - but they've moved to France.

The memorial is in the middle of the cemetery, with some kind of conifer over it, in a row of graves. The paths were just earth when I went there - so don't go on a muddy day. The gate was open. It's a lovely quiet oasis, though I suppose it will be built over before long. Otto is on the headstone, with his parents, and assorted sisters and my father (violin restorer), are on the kerbstones. They aren't all there - not enough room.

Something to look forward to! Thanks very much, Bob.

VivP

nee Lane