mordac Posted 24 March , 2004 Share Posted 24 March , 2004 Hi All: I came across this interesting story in the 2nd Canadian Mounted Rifles history. The 2nd CMR were located in the Pozieres trenches at the time. "On the night of the 13th of September one of our patrols, in No Man's Land, under Cpl. J. W. Stevenson, found and brought in three Australians who had been lying in a shell hole for eleven days. One was unwounded but had stayed with his wounded pals, getting rations and water at night from the dead laying close by. None of them knew they were in No Man's Land, but thought they were behind the German lines." Attached is the 2nd CMR's entry in their war diary for September 13, 1916. Can any of our Australian Pals provide any additional information as to who these men were? Did they survive the war? Thanks. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 25 March , 2004 Share Posted 25 March , 2004 Hi Garth The 3rd of September was the last of a series of Australian attacks on Mouquet Farm. The 13th Australian Brigade launched an attack on this attack. This brigade constituted the 49th, 50th, 51st & 52nd Battalions. The 51st lost quite a few men as prisoners on this date. I've got a bit of info on these units so I'll see if I can come up with anything. Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 25 March , 2004 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2004 The 3rd of September was the last of a series of Australian attacks on Mouquet Farm. The 13th Australian Brigade launched an attack on this attack. This brigade constituted the 49th, 50th, 51st & 52nd Battalions. The 51st lost quite a few men as prisoners on this date. I've got a bit of info on these units so I'll see if I can come up with anything. Hi Andrew: Thanks for your reply. I find it remarkable they would have the courage to stick it out for 11 days. On the night of the 10th of September, 'C' and 'D' Companies, 2nd CMR, relieved the 5th Battalion in front of Mouquet Farm. The same night these three men were found there seems to have been quit a dust up with the Germans in No Man's Land. See attached war diary entry. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevenbec Posted 26 March , 2004 Share Posted 26 March , 2004 Mate, I did a quick check of the 51st Bn History and they make no mention of these men returning to the unit. The 51st Bn was the Left flanking Bn in the attack on the 3rd Sept. It attacked from the Quarry and captured Mucky Farm only to have it lost with elements of two companies by the germans. It does mention that SB's went into No man's land to check for survivers untill german fire made this to deadly. Did the 2nd CMR occupy the area of the Quarry and were these men found in front. If so then they are possible 51st Bn men. The attacking Troops were 51st Bn, 52nd Bn and 49th Bn in that order with the 50th Bn in support/Reserve. By the date they may have Return to unit the 51st Bn was behind Poperinghe as the division had been releived. S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 26 March , 2004 Author Share Posted 26 March , 2004 Hi Guys: I know this isn't much to go on, but here's the war diaries say: The 8th Brigade war diary places the 2nd CMR at Left Sector from R.28.c.2.1 R.33.a.7.7 H.Q. Pozieres. However, the 2nd CMR war diary states "On the night of the 11/12 Sept the 2nd CMR Bn relieved the 10th Can Battn, 2nd Can Inf Bge as instructed in operation orders issued by 8th Can Inf Brigade. The position of front line being from R.33.A7.7 to R.33.B.5.9. The disposition made was 2 companies in front line (Company Hdqrs at The Quarry) one company in support in KAY-TOMCUT and SULPHUR trenches, & one company in ZERO trench Near Kay RE Dump. The Battalion strength being 22 officers & 713 other ranks." The only map I can find of the area is large scale and is from September 15, 1916. 2nd CMR's position is circled. Thanks. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 26 March , 2004 Author Share Posted 26 March , 2004 It's interesting that the 8th Brigade's diary also contains a reference to the three men from "Down Under." Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 27 March , 2004 Share Posted 27 March , 2004 Steve beat me to it with the information from the 51st Bn history, and I haven't been able to find anything else so far, but I'm going to the Army Museum of WA on Sunday so I'll look up a few more sources there. It would be nice to find something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevenbec Posted 28 March , 2004 Share Posted 28 March , 2004 Mate, I went into the 49th Bn history and likewise it had no mention of any soldiers returning post 4th sept. The 49Bn was on the far right of the attack and captured some of the Fabeck Graben but with the failure of the other Bn's it could only be suported by elements of the 13th Canadian Bn on the 4th Sept, untill its withdrawal. This Bn (13th Canadian) releived the 49th Bn AIF and with the 16th Bn Canadian took over the front. One has to wonder how the Canadian units which held this front for all that time did not find these men in no mans land during that time. Is there any mention in other Canadian units of way would aussies coming in or being found during the time? S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 28 March , 2004 Author Share Posted 28 March , 2004 One has to wonder how the Canadian units which held this front for all that time did not find these men in no mans land during that time. Is there any mention in other Canadian units of way would aussies coming in or being found during the time? Hi Steve: I've done a check of the war dairies for the dates in question. Here's the basics: the 13th Battalion (3rd Brigade) relieved the 52nd, 51st, and 41st Australian Battalions on September 3. They were under constant shell fire were pined down. There's no report in the battalion or brigade dairies of finding any surviving Australians. On September 7/8 the 13th Battalion was relieved by the 8th Battalion (2nd Brigade). On the night of September 9 a patrol lead by Lieut. Harrow, MC was out in front of the trenches and found the bodies of six Australians. One of the bodies is a Captain; none could be identified. The 8th Battalion is relieved by the 10th Battalion (2nd Brigade) on September 10. Neither the 8th or 10th Battalions nor the 2nd Brigade dairies reports finding any surviving Australians. Tonight I read the 13th Battalion's history for September 3 to 8. The writer devoted eight pages to these four days. I now can see why the three men in question thought they were behind German lines. At times nobody knew if Mouquet Farm had been captured or not. There was some confusion regarding the actual location of the front line. The relatively short stay for the 13th Battalion cost them 60 men killed, 247 wounded and 16 missing. Do either of you guys know what the casualties were for the Australian battalions? This seems like a very nasty fight. Thanks. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 29 March , 2004 Share Posted 29 March , 2004 Hi Garth For the Australians the 51st & 52nd Battalions were heavily hit. Only two officers of the 51st made it back to the battalion, and both these were wounded. The 52nd Bn worked in conjunction with some Canadian units in this attack. The Australian history by Charles Bean has the full story of this if you want to check out his account of the attack which you can read online at the Australian War Memorial website. It also mentions a few of the Canadian officers involved in the attack. In regard to the story of the 3 Australians in No Mans Land, thanks to Charles Bean, I found one of their names. Bean had this episode as a footnote to his 3rd of September Mouquet Farm section. 'A Canadian patrol under L/Cpl Stevenson , 2nd Canadian Mtd Rifles Battalion, found three Australians of the 51st Bn in No Mans Land near the south west corner of the farm. Two of them were badly wounded, and the third, Pte M Doohan (of Sydney) had stayed with them, feeding them with bully beef and other food for which he had foraged at night among the dead.' Unfortunately no mention of the other two but I have requested Doohans service record to see if there is any more info. Doohan was recommended for the MM for his work but I don't think it was awarded. Doohan who was a Farm Labourer was killed on the 13/10/17 and is buried in Passchendaele New British Cemetery. He originally came from Donegal in Ireland before working in Australia in Sydney & Perth. Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 29 March , 2004 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2004 Hi Andrew: I took you advice and downloaded Bean's three chapters on the action at Mouquet Farm. Thanks for the suggestion, it was very informative reading! Found the footnote on page 852. I hope Private Doohan received his MM. He certainly deserved the medal for sticking it out and taking care of his wounded pals. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 29 March , 2004 Share Posted 29 March , 2004 Hi Garth I checked again and found that Doohan was awarded the MM, the interesting part being that he was recommended for it by the GOC 2nd Canadian Mounted Rifles Battalion. http://awm.gov.au/database/awm28/frame.asp...r=1/184&page=65 Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 14 April , 2004 Share Posted 14 April , 2004 Michael Doohan's service record is now available electronically on the National Archives site. http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/Items_list...=1&O=0&T=I&C=15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 14 April , 2004 Author Share Posted 14 April , 2004 Hi Andrew: I tried to follow up on your link, but hit a blank page. Could you please repost it? Thanks for following up on this story. I appreciate your efforts. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 15 April , 2004 Share Posted 15 April , 2004 Hi Garth Go to the National Archives website http://www.naa.gov.au and then click on the 'record search' button. This will take you to the search field and type in Michael Doohan and in the date range put 1914-1919. This will bring up his record and then just click on the link to his electronic service record. Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 15 April , 2004 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2004 Hi Andrew: Many thanks for your help, I found his record. Beauty!! I've bookmarked the National Archives of Australia search page and will be using it for future research. Also, thanks again for showing me where I can download chapters from Bean's history. I've been using this feature quite a bit over the last couple of weeks. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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