DDP1955 Posted 28 March , 2009 Share Posted 28 March , 2009 Hi Guys Could anybody tell me if I could get a trench Map of this area, just outside Lesboeufs I really want to know where this trench is specifically .. My great-uncle was a casualty during the assault of this trench Dianne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 28 March , 2009 Share Posted 28 March , 2009 Hello Dianne Here is Spectrum marked with the red dots. We have found a family member [my Great Uncle] was killed near here on the 12th Oct 1916 Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDP1955 Posted 28 March , 2009 Author Share Posted 28 March , 2009 Here is Spectrum marked with the red dots. We have found a family member [my Great Uncle] was killed near here on the 12th Oct 1916 Hi Andy Thank you so very much for this trench map, I've been looking for one for a while now Where was your great uncle buried? Was he KIA or DOW? I've only researched the 1st Battalion, City of London (Royal Fusilliers), in respect of the action on 07 /08th Oct 1916 I've looked at the DOW up to and including 10/10/1916 and they were all buried at Grove Town Cemetery, Meaulte,. Its not beyond the realms of possibility that a man injured on 07/08 Oct could have died on 12 Oct and be buried in the same place as those that died on the 09th and 10th What regiment was your man in? I have the war diary for Oct 1916 for the 1st Battalion City of London, it might give me some idea of where they went next, if both regiments were in the same division. Just a thought! Dianne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 28 March , 2009 Share Posted 28 March , 2009 Hi Dianne Here is the newspaper clipping from a Leeds newspaper a week later, he was never found, although as you say he might be at Meaulte or Grove Town as an unidentified casualty. The attack took place on the 12th October on Zenith Trench , James being part of the bombing Team attached to the assaulting party. I have not been to the site of the trench , but will on one of our visits Wheldrake is not a million miles away, do you need anything , if so I can get the clubs out and take the camera at the same time Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 29 March , 2009 Share Posted 29 March , 2009 Dianne, this is a German aerial from Nov 1916 Spectrum Trench. This is the actual trench system your GrGrandfather was kia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7:29am Posted 29 March , 2009 Share Posted 29 March , 2009 I am looking at some Tigers killed during the attacks on Gird and Goat Trenchs in September 1916. Does this photo cover them? Cheers Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDP1955 Posted 29 March , 2009 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2009 This is a German aerial from Nov 1916 Spectrum Trench. Hi Egbert Thank you so very much for this! These graphics are reallu adding colour to the research I have already done Dianne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 29 March , 2009 Share Posted 29 March , 2009 You're welcome Dianne, PM me your email for higher resolution pic. Jim, I don't know the Brit trench names, but only the German ones! so if you post a snippet from the area where Gird and Goat is depicted, I will see..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamforgot Posted 29 March , 2009 Share Posted 29 March , 2009 Just a small section of the map Andy sent, this may be slightly better resolution . No offence Andy?? Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 29 March , 2009 Share Posted 29 March , 2009 Colin , wish my scanner was as good as that Nice job Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamforgot Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Thanks Andy, must confess the scanner was one of my best buys, it is rather old now but does the job. Wish my general IT knowledge was as good . Best wishes. Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 From "Linesman"... Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchtower Posted 2 September , 2009 Share Posted 2 September , 2009 Dianne - I am very new to the Great War Forum having put my first post in earlier today. It concerned my father's cousin Geoffrey de Gruchy Barkas, a second lieutenant in the 1st (City of London) Battalion, the London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers). I was seeking information about the action in which he was involved when he was awarded the Military Cross during the battle of the Somme. My request was very quickly answered by "linge" and "auchonvillerssomme" who identified it as being in the area of Spectrum Trench on 7/8th October 1916. This reply led me to you and hopefully you might be able to assist with further information from your access to the War Diary of the Battalion or from other sources that you have researched. Regards - Roland Barkas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDP1955 Posted 3 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 3 September , 2009 Hi Roland The war diary does mention 2nd Lieut Barkas in the war diary for 07/08th October 1916 in relation to action at Spectrum Trench beginning at 1.30 pm on 07th October 1916. He was leading the attack with D company. If you would like a copy of the war diary for October 1916, PM me your email address and I will send it to you Hope this helps Dianne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDP1955 Posted 3 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 3 September , 2009 Also ...... just dug this out from my research! From "The Somme-the day by day Account" by Chris McCarthy: 7 October 1916. 56 Division. "The Division attacked next to the French and on the right at 1.45 p.m.with the London Scottish,1/4th London and 1/12th London (168 Brigade),and 1/1st London,1/7th Middlesex (167 Brigade). The London Scottish had difficulty keeping in touch with the French who were advancing east rather than north,but they captured a group of gun pits and the southern end of Hazy Trench. At 1.47 p.m. 1/4th London advanced but were held up by machine gun fire. At 1.49 p.m.1/12th failed in their attack on Dewdrop Trench. Likewise 1/1st London on Spectrum Trench,except on the left where bombers linked with the 1/7th Middlesex and took the southern section of the continuation of Rainbow Trench. The London Scottish and 1/4th London repulsed a counter-attack,but after nightfall were forced to withdraw " The action began on 7 October 1916 and was designed to break the ‘Le Transloy line’. The final line of significant German positions. Winter had drawn in rapidly and turned the battlefield into a quagmire. Aerial reconnaissance proved almost impossible in the rain and low cloud, and the guns were further hampered by the fact that Fourth Army was now advancing on to the lower slopes of a valley meaning the artillery lost the benefit of observation over the enemy lines. 12 Division was scheduled to take Bayonet Trench from its positions on the edge of Gueudecourt village, and advance a further 500 yards on 7 October. Fifteen minutes before zero hour (1.45pm) the Germans began an intense bombardment of the division’s front line. The divisional historians believed that the Germans had gained some prior knowledge of the assault line. However, it is far more likely that routine observation and intelligence informed the reaction. Attacking in the afternoon had become habitual as it provided artillery observers with the opportunity of making their final assessments and adjustments in daylight. In October 1916 the Battalion fought in the battle of the Transloy Ridges, one of the actions that made up the battle of the Somme. At 1-45pm on 7 October 1916 they clambered out of their trenches to attack Spectrum Trench which was to the north of Lesboeufs and west of Le Transloy. The attack was held up by machine gun fire and failed to take most of Spectrum Trench. Only on the left where was there any success, where Spectrum Trench joined Rainbow Trench. The attack continued the next day. Over the two days the Battalion lost 79 other ranks killed in action, and 5 more died of wounds over the next two days. This might be useful. Dianne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchtower Posted 4 September , 2009 Share Posted 4 September , 2009 Dear Dianne - Thank you so much for your response and generous offer to let me have the War Diary for October 1916. Being very new to this I am not quite sure how to forward my EMail address to you. I tried clicking on your profile but it would not let me send you a message. Shall I just put it on the board and then remove it once you have safely received it? Once again I am greatly impressed with the help I have received from several members of the GWF. Regards - Roland Barkas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDP1955 Posted 4 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 4 September , 2009 Hi Roland I've also tried to PM you this evening. I think you need 10 posts to use the PM facility If you post your email addy, I'll respond as soon as I can with the war diary, then you can remove your email address One question for you! Did your relative survive the war? Dianne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchtower Posted 4 September , 2009 Share Posted 4 September , 2009 Hi Roland I've also tried to PM you this evening. I think you need 10 posts to use the PM facility If you post your email addy, I'll respond as soon as I can with the war diary, then you can remove your email address One question for you! Did your relative survive the war? Dianne Dear Dianne - Thank you again. Yes he did, which was remarkable really when you think he was in the Gallipoli campaign, then to the Western Front where I believe he may well have been involved with the 56th Division on the Gommecourt assault on 1st July 1916, then the Transloy Ridges in October and then later was wounded on 28th August 1918 after two days of fighting with the 4th London Regiment at the Battle of Amiens and Bapaume. He went on to become a Film Producer and Director until the second world war when he was in charge of camouflage in North Africa and directed much of the complete tactical surprise which brought about victory at El Alamein. I have a book he wrote 'The Camouflage Story from Aintree to Alamein' which describes this period of his life. He was a quite remarkable and modest man from what I have learnt. If you search the web you will find many references to his film activity. Can I just say again that I have been most impressed with the help everybody here has given me it has been most useful. Regards - Roland Barkas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connaughtranger Posted 5 September , 2009 Share Posted 5 September , 2009 Hi I've a cyclostyled 1 : 10000 trench map showing the confusion of trenches around Spectrum Trench as at 4th October 1916 and also an officer's copy with slight alterations. It's plain from the key that nobody was really sure of the British front line at that time, a number of British trenches being recorded as "not accurately located." If they would be of interest to you, please PM me your email address and I'll scan them Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDP1955 Posted 6 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 6 September , 2009 I've a cyclostyled 1 : 10000 trench map showing the confusion of trenches around Spectrum Trench as at 4th October 1916 and also an officer's copy with slight alterations. It's plain from the key that nobody was really sure of the British front line at that time, a number of British trenches being recorded as "not accurately located." If they would be of interest to you, please PM me your email address and I'll scan them I'm interested in your comments about Spectrum Trench since my relative died in this action at Spectrum Trench. I wonder if it might explain why my relatives is of no known grave. I would really like to see your map and will PM you Many thanks, Dianne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baird Posted 7 December , 2009 Share Posted 7 December , 2009 Hi Guys Could anybody tell me if I could get a trench Map of this area, just outside Lesboeufs I really want to know where this trench is specifically .. My great-uncle was a casualty during the assault of this trench Dianne Hello Dianne, My great uncle was killed 14/10/1916 whilst with 2nd. Seaforth Highlanders attempting to take Dewdrop and Rainy Trenches. I have tried over the years to research actually how many Bats. and men were involved in this very small area during October. If you are interested I can forward what I have researched. Incidentally the poet Leslie Coulson was killed around the same time as your relative whilst serving with the 1/12th. London Regiment(The Rangers). bairdferguson1@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew.gillsfc Posted 9 June , 2012 Share Posted 9 June , 2012 Hi I see that there is reference to the Duke of Wellington's West Riding Regiment in the above posts, please can someone confirm whether Private James Hobley (Reg No. 308104) of the same regiment, was in the same area at the time please. Any information, maps, photos etc. will be gratefully received as I have been handed down his death plaque and would like to know more. Thanks Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HeatherJ Posted 23 March , 2014 Share Posted 23 March , 2014 It's a while since this thread was active, but my Great Uncle was killed here (his name is on the Thiepval Monument as he was never found) on the 12th October 1916 and was Private John George Johnson from Duke of Wellington's West Riding 2nd Bn. If anyone has any further details on the trenches involved that day, I'd appreciate it. I'm hoping to visit the area in the summer this year and I intend to find where he fell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorrs58 Posted 26 April , 2014 Share Posted 26 April , 2014 My great uncle James William Morris Duke of Wellingtons West Riding 2nd Bn was also killed on 12 October 1916. I found the following information on cwg website. http://www.cwgc.org/somme/content.asp?menuid=30&id=30&menuname=Le+Transloy&menu=main Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxlade134 Posted 25 August , 2014 Share Posted 25 August , 2014 In the 2nd Lancashire Fus. War diary it mentions two trenches Spectrum and Donald . 1916 1st-7th Oct. Bn Billets Corbie 8th Oct Marched 17 kms to Citadel camp.(nr Bray sur Somme) 9th. Oct Marched fron Citadel to Trones Wood took over Spectrum and Donald trenches. Casualties in taking over trenches Wounded 1 Officer 6 OR's This post and maps was really helpful for Spectrum but I cant find Donald on any trench maps so far. Can anybody give me a pointer please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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