charliec Posted 15 April , 2009 Share Posted 15 April , 2009 My Grandafther's younger brother was in the 14th Btn. Royal Warwickshire Regiment, his Reg No. was 18478. He was killed at Broodseine Ridge on the 4th October 1917 aged 20. Could anyone advise me as to the approximate date he may have enlisted as his Reg No. indicates that he didn't join as one of the original 1st Birmingham Pals (14th battalion) raised in Birmingham during September 1915 by the Lord Mayor. I'd be most grateful of any help or information regarding this battalion please Regards CharlieC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 15 April , 2009 Share Posted 15 April , 2009 1st Birmingham Pals (14th battalion) raised in Birmingham during September 1915 by the Lord Mayor. hi Charlie, I'm sure you've made a typo up there SDGW shows that Pte 18478 Harold Druce was KiA on that date and was formerly Pte 25446 of the Somerset LI. I'm taking it that this doesn't appear on his MIC and would suggest that he didn't serve overseas with the SLI. Other forum members may be able to pinpoint an enlistment date for the SLI number. 'The Birmingham Pals' by forum member Terry Carter tells the story of the 3 city battalions. On the 4th October 1917 the 14th Bn. took part in counter attacks on Polderhoek Chateau. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliec Posted 16 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 16 April , 2009 hi Charlie, I'm sure you've made a typo up there SDGW shows that Pte 18478 Harold Druce was KiA on that date and was formerly Pte 25446 of the Somerset LI. I'm taking it that this doesn't appear on his MIC and would suggest that he didn't serve overseas with the SLI. Other forum members may be able to pinpoint an enlistment date for the SLI number. 'The Birmingham Pals' by forum member Terry Carter tells the story of the 3 city battalions. On the 4th October 1917 the 14th Bn. took part in counter attacks on Polderhoek Chateau. Jon Hi Jon, thanks for your reply ... yes I did make an error, 1915 should have been 1914. The info I have to date is that 14th Battalion (1st Birmingham Pals) was raised at Birmingham by the Lord Mayor and a local committee in September 1914. After training they were attached to 95th Brigade, 32nd Division and embarked to France in August 1915. Late December 1915 they transferred to 13th Brigade, 5th Division and supported the Canadians and Anzacs? that attacked Brooseine Ridge and subsequently Paschenndale Ridge. I have several books regarding the Birmingham Pals Battalions with all the initial companies listed, Harold does not apperar in any of them, so I presume he was not in the initial recruitment, Additionally, his Reg No does not match those of the original recruits, so I'm guessing he joined the Battalion later on? I'm not aware that he had any links to the SLI, can you check again please, his full name was Harold Thomas Druce and originated from Oxfordshire. Thanks again for any info offered CharlieC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 17 April , 2009 Share Posted 17 April , 2009 Hi Charlie here's Harold's entry from SDGW. A further search of the database reveals 6 other soldiers who were formerly of the SLI and all within similar number ranges on both their RW and SLI numbers, 2 of the soldiers also had Oxfordshire connections. The MICs do not appear to list the SLI connection because they must have been drafted whilst still in the UK. Of the 6 mentioned the earliest date of death occured on the 30th July 1916 and if there are no dates on the MICs this would suggest the draft being attatched to the battalion sometime after 1st January 1916. cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliec Posted 17 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2009 Thanks for the info Jon, never had a clue that Harold had been in a different outfit. I presumed that beacause he lived in Oxfordhire, enlisting in Birmingham might have seemed reasonable? Thanks again Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Tucker Posted 20 April , 2009 Share Posted 20 April , 2009 On the back wall of Tyne Cot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliec Posted 20 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 20 April , 2009 Thank you Alan ... Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Carter Posted 21 April , 2009 Share Posted 21 April , 2009 Like many other battalions, the 14th Royal Warwicks, were brought back to full strength before the Battle of 3rd Ypres (Passchendeale). Quite a few men from the Cavalry were transferred into the infantry at this time also. Harold Druce was more likely to be a conscript or Derby Scheme recruit and did his basic training in the UK with the Somersets and then got posted to France & Flanders and put where he was needed. Probably, luck of the draw, that he ended up in the 14th Royal Warwicks. Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Carter Posted 21 April , 2009 Share Posted 21 April , 2009 In Regards to my previous post. I have had a look at Soldiers Died and there is a pattern forming of men who enlisted from the Oxford and Bucks areas into the Somerset Light Infantry and then being kia/dow with the Warwickshire Regiment. All have service numbers similar to Harold Druce 184** etc. There are six men thrown up by Soldiers Died with various dates in 1917/1918 when they died. However, the earliest date that one of these men was killed was 30 July, 1916. He was 40 year old, William Waddup, 14th Royal Warwicks, 18467. Enlisted Oxford, formerly 24312 Somerset L. I. He was killed during the attack on Wood Lane, near High Wood, on 30 July 1916, and is now commemorated on Thiepval Memorial. Therefore, it stands a good chance that Harold Druce was also serving with the 14th Royal Warwicks at that time. Which then means he was not a conscript but a volunteer. Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Carter Posted 21 April , 2009 Share Posted 21 April , 2009 Have done a bit more rooting around on Ancestry. There are no papers for Harold Druce, but there is paperwork for a couple or so men who enlisted into the Somerset Light Infantry and have very close service numbers. Two of the three records I looked at the men were examined and passed fit a few months before they were attested. DOES THIS MEAN THEY WERE DERBY RECRUITS? One soldier, Leonard John Chinn whose SLI number was the number before Harold Druce i.e. 25445 was examined on 11 Jan 1916 and attested into SLI on 12 May 1916 (all three records had this attestation date). Only two pages on this guy & no other info. Ivor Butler's records show no first page thus examination date is missing. He was attested into SLI, No.25450, 12 may 1916. This was the 9th Reserve Bn at Castle Cary. This Bn later become the 45th Training Reserve battalion. He later transferred to the RFA. George William Cockerell's papers show that he was examined in 18 Feb 1916 and attested into SLI on 12 May 1916. he then transferred into 2/8 Notts & Derby and then finishing the war with 1st Bn Sherwood Foresters. With that info, its probably fair to say that Harold Druce was examined in Oxford sometime Jan/Feb 1916. for the Derby Scheme. Attested on 12 May 1916 into Somerset light Infantry reserve battalion and then after a period of training transferred into the 14 Royal Warwicks. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliec Posted 21 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 21 April , 2009 Thanks for the info Terry, it's very interesting indeed. Just a small correction (sorry)... but Leonard Chinn's No. 25445 was not the one before Harold Druces No. 24556. I though pehaps you made a typo but checked the records to, it seems that Harolds number is prior to the examples you gave. I'm not familiar with the DERBY scheme you mentioned, was it a method of attracting/encouraging volunteers? Thanks again ... Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Carter Posted 21 April , 2009 Share Posted 21 April , 2009 http://www.1914-1918.net/derbyscheme.html above, a link to info about Derby Scheme Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliec Posted 22 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2009 Terry - Many thanks for your help - Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 23 April , 2009 Share Posted 23 April , 2009 A quick, very nit-picky point of nomenclature. But I do care about it, as my late Dad was proud of his service as an officer in the Regiment in North West Europe and Palestine in/after WW2. They were never the 'Royal Warwickshires' or the "Warwickshire Regiment"... To non-members of the family they were the "Royal Warwicks"; if you were an insider, you were a "Warwick", or "in the Warwicks". There. I feel better now! Regards to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliec Posted 24 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 24 April , 2009 Not sure about that ? Regards Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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