fred.xyz Posted 23 April , 2009 Share Posted 23 April , 2009 Hi, I've got what I believe to be a WW1 brass sleeve trade badge. Just wanted your opinion. Its a lee nefield with a slign crossed over a pick (maddock). Measures 34mm x 28mm. Has 4 brass loops to back. No maker. Anyone know what it is? Tried uploading but won't budge. Thanks, Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Zieminski Posted 23 April , 2009 Share Posted 23 April , 2009 Hi, I've got what I believe to be a WW1 brass sleeve trade badge. Just wanted your opinion. Its a lee nefield with a slign crossed over a pick (maddock). Measures 34mm x 28mm. Has 4 brass loops to back. No maker. Anyone know what it is? Tried uploading but won't budge. Thanks, Fred Hi Fred From your description it sounds to me like a Labour Corps Collar Badge as opposed to a trade badge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 23 April , 2009 Share Posted 23 April , 2009 Fred, It could be a Pioneer Collar dog as well. Can't confirm on the loops,though,my one is affixed to a matchbox cover. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 23 April , 2009 Share Posted 23 April , 2009 Sounds like the collar dog worn by Pioneer Battalions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B Posted 23 April , 2009 Share Posted 23 April , 2009 Mr Broomfield Sir, I take it that you are referring to UK labour battalions 'cause the Australian ones wore the rising sun - from a pic of my uncle who was in 2nd pioneers David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 23 April , 2009 Share Posted 23 April , 2009 David, I take issue with you referring to the UK Pioneer Battalions as labour ones. They were primarily fighting troops and were always in the thick of the action. In direct answer to your question.Yes,the UK Pioneer Battalions wore Pick and Rifle Collar Dogs.If you want to see an example,check out the 8th Royal Scots section of Forum Member,John Duncan's Website-Newbattle at War. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 23 April , 2009 Share Posted 23 April , 2009 A Pioneer Bn collar dog with 4 fixing lugs to the rear, not sure if they were worn in facing pairs though Jon edit: not sure why it's so big but there you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 23 April , 2009 Share Posted 23 April , 2009 a Pioneer battalion of an infantry regiment. No such thing as a trade badge in Great War, according to official documents. I will expand on this if needs be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantsmil Posted 23 April , 2009 Share Posted 23 April , 2009 Jon you are correct they were worn as a matching pair, a 'mirrored pair'. Australian Pioneers sometimes wore a matching pair or an Australian rising sun and an single pioneer badge on the collar. I should also add that usually Australians wore a pair of rising suns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 23 April , 2009 Share Posted 23 April , 2009 Jon, They were worn in facing pairs,with the pick uppermost. If you want to see examples of how worn check out the Royal Scots section in the Photo Gallery portion of John Duncan's Website-Newbattle at War. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B Posted 23 April , 2009 Share Posted 23 April , 2009 George, please dont get upset,I was thinking of the Australian Pioneers who were firstly construction, i.e. roads bridges, living quarters, you name it they did it, and secondly fighting troops. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 23 April , 2009 Share Posted 23 April , 2009 David, The best description of the Pioneer Battalion's role I've read, is from the WW1 history of the 8th Royal Scots and I've quoted on the Forum before. "The Pioneers are the handy men of the Division,and do everything from building the G.O.C.'s fireplace to staunching the enemy attacks,or leading the Division "over the top". Best wishes George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 23 April , 2009 Share Posted 23 April , 2009 I should point out that while they are SUPPOSED to be worn in matching/mirrored pairs, period photographs show that this was often not done (ie wearing a pair of identical badges). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west coast Posted 24 April , 2009 Share Posted 24 April , 2009 a Pioneer battalion of an infantry regiment. No such thing as a trade badge in Great War, according to official documents. I will expand on this if needs be. grumpy, could you explain a little please, i have read that because there were so many trades appearing, that they catogrised them by pay rates into three 'lots' a,b,c. the appropriate letter in 'laurel' ? leaves. ??? cheers , mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 24 April , 2009 Share Posted 24 April , 2009 Wrong war! This was a WW II thing. A soldiers 'appointment' was denoted by a badge upper right sleeve 1914 1918. Hammer and tongs, horseshoe, bit, wheel, crossed axes, drum, bugle etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 24 April , 2009 Share Posted 24 April , 2009 The Pioneer Battalions identified tradesmen,although they were not given any special recognition,unless Grumpy can elaborate. From the 8th Royal Scots War Diary. 27th July 1915-A Roll was made of the civil employments of men of the Battalion and a tradesmen's platoon formed in each company of men trained as joiners,engineers,plumbers and kindred trades.The remaining three platoons of each company being excavators. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west coast Posted 24 April , 2009 Share Posted 24 April , 2009 grumpy, i read this on 'digger history' and it said it was 1915 . [under badges/trades] . cheers , mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 24 April , 2009 Share Posted 24 April , 2009 The Pioneer Battalions identified tradesmen,although they were not given any special recognition,unless Grumpy can elaborate. From the 8th Royal Scots War Diary. 27th July 1915-A Roll was made of the civil employments of men of the Battalion and a tradesmen's platoon formed in each company of men trained as joiners,engineers,plumbers and kindred trades.The remaining three platoons of each company being excavators. George Interesting. In a 'normal' infantry battalion, the battalion pioneers were always chosen from men with trades, and the trades moved with the times, as several accounts testify. Probably not a post for a man with IT skills yet though! grumpy, i read this on 'digger history' and it said it was 1915 . [under badges/trades] . cheers , mike. I am no expert on Australian badges, just Victoria Bitter. Willing to eat my proverbial hat if such badges in British service in our period. Pass the salt, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west coast Posted 24 April , 2009 Share Posted 24 April , 2009 grumpy, ease up on the salt there, it doe`s say that these are british army badges , but they do apply to australian army. cheers, [dawn service in two hours] mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantsmil Posted 25 April , 2009 Share Posted 25 April , 2009 Don't worry. Grumpy's hat is very safe. Not all information on the web is accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west coast Posted 25 April , 2009 Share Posted 25 April , 2009 isn`t that the truth grant. i think we`ll leave well enough alone. cheers, [a tired] mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred.xyz Posted 25 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 25 April , 2009 Thanks all for your help. The badge pictured is exactly the same as the one I have. Lots of help and great fun reading your comments. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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