Jack Sheldon Posted 27 April , 2009 Share Posted 27 April , 2009 Not a review, but a heads up concerning the appearance in early July of this long-anticipated book by William Philpott of King's College London. Written as part of his research case study Three Armies on the Somme, at 750 pages, it is not likely to be a light read, but it promises to be an extremely important fresh analysis of the battle, which will place the Somme in a much wider historical context than is usually the case. Having heard him lecture and having read previous work by him, my order is going in without delay. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjustice Posted 27 April , 2009 Share Posted 27 April , 2009 Jack, Moi aussi! Thanks for the heads up. I am sure Ms. Greenhalgh is sharpening her quill as we speak. Roll on July. Cheers, Simon Not a review, but a heads up concerning the appearance in early July of this long-anticipated book by William Philpott of King's College London. Written as part of his research case study Three Armies on the Somme, at 750 pages, it is not likely to be a light read, but it promises to be an extremely important fresh analysis of the battle, which will place the Somme in a much wider historical context than is usually the case. Having heard him lecture and having read previous work by him, my order is going in without delay. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxsparky Posted 15 May , 2009 Share Posted 15 May , 2009 Bloody Victory: The Sacrifice on the Somme and the Making of the Twentieth Century due to be published 2nd July 2009. £17.50. Bloody Victory describes in vivid detail the physical conditions, the combat and exceptional bravery against the odds, the first to argue in significant detail for a complete overhaul of our present view of the Somme. This should cause some discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Connolly Posted 18 May , 2009 Share Posted 18 May , 2009 If successful in terms of sales, when might we expect the paperback coming out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 24 May , 2009 Share Posted 24 May , 2009 Bloody Victory: The Sacrifice on the Somme and the Making of the Twentieth Century due to be published 2nd July 2009. £17.50. Bloody Victory describes in vivid detail the physical conditions, the combat and exceptional bravery against the odds, the first to argue in significant detail for a complete overhaul of our present view of the Somme. This should cause some discussion? How difficult it must be to achieve any overhaul, let alone a complete one, after so much has already been written ! The very use of the word "Victory" in the title suggests that colours have already been nailed to the mast...but I very much look forward to it. I do hope that this time we get sufficient emphasis on the role played by the French, instead of depicting it as a sideline to that of the British and a depleted spin off from Verdun. Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 24 May , 2009 Share Posted 24 May , 2009 Phil Bill Philpott is an expert on the French Army in WW1. I have also heard him give an excellent talk on the French contribution on 1 July 1916. You can rest assured that they will certainly receive due recognition. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 1 July , 2009 Author Share Posted 1 July , 2009 Just a note to say that my copy arrived yesterday. I have scanned it all and read the first 125 pages. So far it is meeting my expectations fully. I hope to post a review when I return from Ypres in about ten days' time but, in the meantime, I would encourage everyone to obtain this book. Elegantly and cogently written by a top class young historian with total mastery of his subject, it is a model of clarity, powerful argument and, I suspect, marks the appearance of the definitive book on this subject which we have all been waiting for. Highly recommended already. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 2 July , 2009 Share Posted 2 July , 2009 I have to agree with Jack - my copy turned up on Tuesday and I have read the first 100 pages -really impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 3 July , 2009 Share Posted 3 July , 2009 There is a review of this book in today's Daily Express - www.express.co.uk/books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 4 July , 2009 Share Posted 4 July , 2009 At last -THANK GOODNESS - an account by a British historian that does justice to the French effort in the battle. I have reached page 175, and it's captivated me. I'm a little uncomfortable with the denigration of Churchill's account: I think his memorandum of August 1916 stands out as a brave and candid statement, and perhaps Philpott too quickly dismisses The World Crisis as the distorting prism of Great War historiography. Do not let my quibble spoil the party...this is a very good book, and I'm extremely pleased that I bought it. Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 5 July , 2009 Share Posted 5 July , 2009 Looking forward to this immensely. Having heard Bill speak about the French on the Somme a couple of times, and having been on a battlefield tour where he presented three stands on the subject, I have been anticipating this one for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 5 July , 2009 Share Posted 5 July , 2009 If successful in terms of sales, when might we expect the paperback coming out? It looks as though a paperback - at 8 pounds less than the hardcover is available now. Both are available on amazon (with a bit of a sale) - purchased through the Forum link of course! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 15 July , 2009 Share Posted 15 July , 2009 It took me a week to finish reading this book. All honour to William Philpott...the principal triumph is his focus on the role played by the French. This has been shamefully neglected in other histories. It's quite excruciating to read Haig's unflattering and unfair references to his allies : Philpott is no "Haigophobe", but he exposes the darker side of the man unflinchingly, and takes a pretty dim view of Lloyd George, too. The book has a very good approach to historiography. A cogent survey of the "casualty controversy" in the penultimate chapter mentions "...the search for accurate German casualty figures goes on...An accurate figure for German casualties on the Somme will never be established....". This is a surprising statement, given that the German Medical History gave a meticulous tabulation of 57,987 killed, 85,683 missing and 273,132 wounded, a total of 416,802 for the period June 21st to November 20th. It might be the case that this figure is too low, but it is remarkable that Philpott does not mention it. That aside, I reckon that this book, along with Jack Sheldon's about the Germans, is the best account that I have read about the Somme. Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Connolly Posted 18 July , 2009 Share Posted 18 July , 2009 It looks as though a paperback - at 8 pounds less than the hardcover is available now. Both are available on amazon (with a bit of a sale) - purchased through the Forum link of course! Chris I ordered it via Amazon a fortnight ago and anticipate it arriving at work* next week. * purely for reasons of delivery convenience and not so that the Bread Knife knows how much I've spent on books, honest .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 19 July , 2009 Share Posted 19 July , 2009 Rob, that's my excuse too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 27 July , 2009 Share Posted 27 July , 2009 £5 off at Waterstone's, if anyone's interested. By using some book tokens and cashing in my Waterstone's loyalty card points, I got it for 60p, so I'm quietly chuffed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Connolly Posted 28 July , 2009 Share Posted 28 July , 2009 Came in the post yesterday, I'll tackle it once Peter Hart's '1918 A Very British Victory" is out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 17 August , 2009 Share Posted 17 August , 2009 Read this on holiday and found the book very interesting and revealing. I will be visiting the French part of the Somme battlefield for a few days this week and the book will be a useful companion. Philpott's views about Haig's relationship with and attitude towards the French Army and its commanders are enlightening. Very few gripes and one question: 1. Maps are generally frustrating. I hate it when people refer to locations in the text which are then not included on the relevant map (I'm talking about villages and geographic locations not trenches). 2. Personally would have preferred more on the 1916 battle and less (or nothing) on the 1940 battle, the link to which seems to me at best tenuous 3. Lack of a proper Bibliography/Sources section Question: Page 146 and his comments about the availability of shells for wirecutting. He has it wrong that the it was a British shortage of high explosive shells which led to the wirecutting being done with shrapnel as the Calais tests in late 1915 had compared the efficacy of HE and shrapnel and found shrapnel cut the wire better as long as fired within some fairly tight parameters. The arrival of the instantaneous graze fuse changed this. Philpott states that the French used HE fired by the 75s and that this was more effective. Did the French have an instantaneous graze fuse in June 1916 does anyone know? If not, what did they do differently to the British 18 pdrs which made the use of HE for wirecutting so much more effective as he suggests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 17 August , 2009 Share Posted 17 August , 2009 I agree with you Bill - Nearly three quarters of the way through it and enjoying the read. If I read it correctly, the French 75's used a lot more HE ammunition on wire cutting than the British 18 pounders using shrapnel and their artillery were in the main more experienced. "Maps are generally frustrating. I hate it when people refer to locations in the text which are then not included on the relevant map (I'm talking about villages and geographic locations not trenches)." Agree with this also, I find it intensely irritating to say the least having to drag out another map or illustration to put text in another book in to context. I do, however, remember receiving a reply to this "complaint" from an author who said that it was due to the publishers not being willing to spend the money on producing more detailed maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John(txic) Posted 17 August , 2009 Share Posted 17 August , 2009 Pals in the Wolverhampton area may be pleased to learn that the Central Library have a copy (bought in for moi, of course..) - it should be back on the shelves in a month or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 17 August , 2009 Share Posted 17 August , 2009 Another gripe, all too common these days, is proof reading (lack of). I can't put my hand tp the passage, but one section, dealing with the aftermath of 1st July, refers to the attack in 'June', and at another point it refers to the French on the left of the 18th Division. With spell checkers, publishers just don't seem to waste money on proof readers any more. But, that said, it is a ruddy good book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 17 August , 2009 Share Posted 17 August , 2009 And 'Authville Wood' somewhere and a few others. BTW is that the wonderful Grace Slick I see as your avatar or is my eyesight even worse than Specsavers told me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinglma Posted 17 August , 2009 Share Posted 17 August , 2009 It looks as though a paperback - at 8 pounds less than the hardcover is available now. Both are available on amazon (with a bit of a sale) Chris According to the listing on Amazon the paperback is not due for release until July 2010. Regards Mike S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Murphy Posted 17 August , 2009 Share Posted 17 August , 2009 Chris According to the listing on Amazon the paperback is not due for release until July 2010. Regards Mike S Hi Mike, I cannot see any reference to a July 2010 release date? Is that from the publisher? Link attached below.... Ian. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/product...239&s=books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 18 August , 2009 Share Posted 18 August , 2009 BTW is that the wonderful Grace Slick I see as your avatar or is my eyesight even worse than Specsavers told me? Your eyesight's fine, old-timer. And the signature ... ring any bells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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