Guest helenmars Posted 4 April , 2004 Share Posted 4 April , 2004 I am trying to find out some more about my great-uncle Joe who died in The Great War on 25th September 1915 aged 20.He was born in Nuneaton Warwickshire and his parents were living in Arley when he was killed. Does anyone know which battle he would have died in? And does his name being on the Menin Gate mean he has no known grave?I am very new to this research and would appreciate any help or info.Also why would he have been in the Oxford and Bucks, if he had been born in Warks.Thanks very much in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 4 April , 2004 Share Posted 4 April , 2004 Hello Helen and welcome to the forum To answer your questions in no particular order (or easiest first) As Joe is commemorated on the Menin Gate this means that he has no known grave. The Menin Gate bears the names of over 54000 men, with no known graves, who were killed in the Ypres Salient between the beginning of the war and 16th August 1917. This means that Joe died somewhere in the vicinity of Ypres. On 25th September 1915 there were no large scale operations taking place in the Salient, other than some raids by way of diversion from the main British thrust that day at Loos in France. Also there would have been the normal attritional round of trench warfare. As for him joining the Ox and Bucks L.I., who knows, most likely by choice. If you give us your Great Uncles full name maybe we can give you further details as to the circumstances of his death. By the way was he in the 5th Battalion Ox and Bucks? Hope this helps Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest helenmars Posted 4 April , 2004 Share Posted 4 April , 2004 Yes, he was in the 5th battalion Oxford and Bucks.I only have his name as being Joseph Kendall ( from the CWGC and also from the 1901 census and civil registration index) He doesn't appear to have had any other names. I know that his parents names were William and Hannah Kendall and their address is listed as being 136 Gun Hill, Arley on the CWGC. Would he have been awarded any service medals , even though he was killed and would they have been forwarded to his family? Also would there be any records of his service and postings, or even any photographs of his battalion or regiment that I could try to find? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 4 April , 2004 Share Posted 4 April , 2004 Hello Helen I've been a bit of a prat and not looked at the heading for your posting. As Joe was in the 5/Ox & Bucks he would have taken part in what is known in the Official History as the "Second Attack on Bellewaarde" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 4 April , 2004 Share Posted 4 April , 2004 And 2nd page. It is a bit hit and miss as to whether his service record survived the bombing of 1940, only about 25% did and these are located at the PRO at Kew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest helenmars Posted 5 April , 2004 Share Posted 5 April , 2004 Do you know whether he would have been awarded any medals for service, even posthumously and would there be any records of them? I would also be interested in any other battles or postings he would have had prior to his death, and also how would I find out when he actually enlisted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Cross Posted 5 April , 2004 Share Posted 5 April , 2004 The battle of Loos was were many men of the 5th Oxord & Bucks LI fell on 25th September 1915. I believe they were at Railway Wood 'the hottest part of the line' according to my source. MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 5 April , 2004 Share Posted 5 April , 2004 The battle of Loos was were many men of the 5th Oxord & Bucks LI fell on 25th September 1915. I believe they were at Railway Wood 'the hottest part of the line' according to my source. MC Mike With the greatest respect, the 5/Ox and Bucks were not at Loos on the 25th September (see extracts from Official History above) and Railway Wood is close to Ypres and not iin France. If Joseph Kendall had been killed at Loos he would be on the Loos Memorial and not the Menin Gate. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Cross Posted 5 April , 2004 Share Posted 5 April , 2004 Andy My contribution was an extract from a first hand account from a 5th O&B man and I agree with the contradiction that you have highlighted. Should have kept stum ! I have a lovely little booklet by Pte F D Cooper of the 5th written in his later life so maybe it is not as accurate as I wanted to believe - but his account is clear on this location, just prior to moving to Poperinghe. He also mentions the subsequent death of Capt Logan on October 17th; buried at Birr Crossroads. Mike (Always well intentioned!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will O'Brien Posted 5 April , 2004 Share Posted 5 April , 2004 Do you know whether he would have been awarded any medals for service, even posthumously and would there be any records of them? He would have been entitled to a Trio (14-15 Star, BWM & VM). His medal index card should be available at the PRO/NA, which would confirm this.............If you wait long enough they might even get around to putting them online (at the moment most of those awarded to soldiers with a surname beginning with A & B with a few available for C thru to H are currently online) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 5 April , 2004 Share Posted 5 April , 2004 Joseph's next of kin would also have been entitled to a bronze memorial plaque, with his name on it, and a scroll (parchment paper) with his name, rank and regiment. Although these are not classed as medals, they are very desirable - and were only available to men and women who were killed/died in the Great War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest helenmars Posted 5 April , 2004 Share Posted 5 April , 2004 Thanks to all for the information! I really appreciate knowing more about the battle he was involved in, considering I have only recently found out that he existed at all. Six months ago all I knew was that my grandfather had a brother who may have been killed in the Great War and that his name was on the memorial in Nuneaton Park. And now with the help of the CWGC and this website I know so much more.No-one in my family seems to have had any idea that his name was engraved on the Menin Gate, much less where he was actually posted or fought. Trouble is ,the more I find out, then the more I want to know!! Once again , thanks. Much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 5 April , 2004 Share Posted 5 April , 2004 My contribution was an extract from a first hand account from a 5th O&B man and I agree with the contradiction that you have highlighted. Should have kept stum ! I have a lovely little booklet by Pte F D Cooper of the 5th written in his later life so maybe it is not as accurate as I wanted to believe - but his account is clear on this location, just prior to moving to Poperinghe. He also mentions the subsequent death of Capt Logan on October 17th; buried at Birr Crossroads. Hello Mike I hope you didn't think that I was coming over heavy or anything, because that certainly wasn't the intention. I think that Pte Cooper has probably got his locations mixed up, under the circumstances this is very understandable. He is very likely to have been in or around Railway Wood (facing Bellewaarde Ridge) that day as the snippet from the Official History above highlights that that was the place were the action was certainly hottest, with 5/KSLI, 5/O & B and 9/RB taking the brunt of the German counterattack. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Cross Posted 6 April , 2004 Share Posted 6 April , 2004 Hi Andy No problem, except trying to hide my embarrasment. I have walked along the line of Oxford & Bucks who fell 25/9/1915 at Guards Cemetery at Windy Corner near the Loos battlefield many times, but these were 2nd Battalion (my Granddad's battalion !). So there is the sad fact that many of the 5th died in the diversionary attack near Ypres while their colleagues in the 2nd died in the 'real' attack at Loos. Yes Pte Cooper's recollection was not accurate (nor was mine). Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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