MG08/15 - firing on the move

[centurion]

See this photo of the gun with the drum mag - a lot of gun to lug. Also photo of an mg squad. Some where I've seen a shot of four soldiers carrying an Mg08/15 forward 'at the double' they appear to be using what looks like a double set of bicycle handle bars. Unfortunately I can't relocate it as of yet.

[dwmmg08]

Found this photo (see link) when looking for something else. I've heard of the Lewis fired on the move but the Mg08/15 was much heavier. Is this just a propaganda or training photo or was this part of the normal tactical use of this weapon?

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/482/69383052.jpg

This was part of the intended use of the gun, and I've shot mine like that, and it does work; but for a number of reasons, there are better ways to use the gun, and it's really better to just flat out run to the next emplacement and let your riflemen or other MG teams cover you. Most of the reasons have only to do with what a clumsy job it is to fire from the hip with either the 08/15 or the Lewis, (I've got both) and what a pain it is to clear a jam while shooting that way with either one.

In answer to your question, it can be and was intended to be done, and the manual for the 08/15 has the assistant gunner placing the drum on the gun before moving it for exactly that reason; but I think it was always more of an emergency idea, so you're not caught with an unloaded MG and a holstered Luger you can't get to with out dropping the gun in the first place.

If I recall correctly, The first thing the assistant gunner is supposed to help with in the new position is getting the drum off of the gun, and the new belt in the gun. I think they only issued 2 drums per gun, also.

Glen in OK

[dwmmg08]

Just to follow up on Centurion and Tom W's posts. Short bursts for MGs is standard of course and the added 100 rd trommel surely minimises its attack use but I am now interested in the German ammo distrbution methods. British/Allied Lewis gun teams/sections etc always had other members assist with drum or spare ammo carriage. In 1918 I have read it was very common for normal rifleman to have their own lewis drum loaders to assist when the opportunity arose.

To date I have seen no Imperial German Army images showing additional belted amunition, or a box full of trommels being carried by anyone outside of the gun team. I am beginning to question whether the 08/15 was hardly ever used in the assault??

A follow up to my own post earlier, (Hi Mark, from the MG42 board!) the 08/15 can and was used in the Assualt, but they never issued a vast number of the drums per gun that I have seen. Lots of cans of belts though. The instructions were to place the drum on the gun prior to moving, and remove it immediately when in position. It's only supposed to be temporary, and the gun is much more effective with the full length belts, to be sure.

I'm not sure a comparison to the Lewis is entirely valid here, as the Lewis only feeds from the drums, which from personal experience, always seem to run dry right when you're really getting into it, but of course everyone possible should be carrying drums for it. Each one is only 47 rounds, and you'll use that fast, and reloading one in combat is not really what you want to do. (Even a belt carrier full is only two per side, if I recall correctly, or less than the Trommel?) Everyone that could carry a can or two of ammo looks like they are in German pictures, but theres several members of the gun team tasked only with carrying ammo cans and water. (remember, the M1915 ammo can is intended to be carried 2 per hand, not one, either! Don't slack off, Soldat!)

Yes, that's 500 rounds of ammo per hand, and yes, they did it, and yes the two drums in a box are cumbersome, but they were there, too. I don't think the Germans stinted on Ammo!

Glen in OK

[centurion]

I'm not sure a comparison to the Lewis is entirely valid here, as the Lewis only feeds from the drums, which from personal experience, always seem to run dry right when you're really getting into it, but of course everyone possible should be carrying drums for it. Each one is only 47 rounds, and you'll use that fast, and reloading one in combat is not really what you want to do.

Double capacity Lewis drums were available. Changing a Lewis gun drum was designed to be a quick and simple affair.

[Robert Dunlop]

Thanks, Glen. Nice to have the insights from your practical experience.

Robert

[Rob Connolly]

Found this photo (see link) when looking for something else. I've heard of the Lewis fired on the move but the Mg08/15 was much heavier. Is this just a propaganda or training photo or was this part of the normal tactical use of this weapon?

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/482/69383052.jpg

Not an expert, so I risk putting my neck on the line here - but I would first ask - Where Is The Photographer? From the picture's perspective, situated only a couple of yards from the LMG team, which would tend to negate it's provenance as combat photography - your normal photographer would be fifty yards away in a trench, looking on from a distance and at a much lower angle. The only similar stuff I have seen is acknowledged Stormtrooper training film, definitely not combat footage.

Secondly, and I admit that I have never heard a shot fired in anger (but maintain sound common skin-saving sense), what are the LMG team doing? Standing proudly in the open, miles from cover, firing a machine gun. Surely their proximity, the noise, muzzle flashes and their tracers would attract the attention of all and sundry within range. Similar to putting up a sign saying "PLEASE SHOOT ME". Not behaviour to be encouraged in stubble-hopping cadets!