Guest Lee G Posted 13 April , 2004 Share Posted 13 April , 2004 Hello, Looking for help with the interpretation of Pte Albert Bagnall's MIC i.e. what was his medal entitlement, theatre of war, remarks etc... I'm trying to establish if the Albert Bagnall on this MIC is my GGrandfather. I know my GGrandfather was born in Sandbach, Cheshire in 1883 and he survived the war... Thanks, Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widwick Posted 13 April , 2004 Share Posted 13 April , 2004 Lee Looks like he joined the Cheshire Regiment Territorial Force circa 1902 (12 years to qualify for the Territorial Efficiency Medal awarded 1914) When the T.F. was reorganised in 1908 as a 'B'agnall he would have got the low number of 150. His second number was allocated in April 1917 and is from the 7th Battalion batch. Its a fair bet that he was in the '7th' from 1908 and its predeceasor before that. The bn assembled on mobilisation at the Drill Hall, Macclesfield on 4.8.14 and was in the Cheshire Brigade of the Welsh Division. It went to Gallipoli (2b Balkans) arriving 9.8.1915 159 Bde 53rd Div. Evacuated to Egypt Dec 15. Moved to France May 1918. 102 Bde 34th Div. He was disembodied on 6 3. 1919 Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 13 April , 2004 Share Posted 13 April , 2004 Well done, Widwick! Just one slight oversight - you omitted to mention his entitlement to a 14/15 trio along with the TFEM. Interesting that Gallipoli is shown as Balkans. Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 13 April , 2004 Share Posted 13 April , 2004 Sorry, guys - but I don't think that, in war time, 12 years was the term required to obtain the TEM. Less time was required to achieve the medal, when on active service..... I think. I am sure someone will confirm this - or put me back in my box. Section 2 is classed as Balkan Theatre 2a is Greek Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria 2b is Gallipoli and Islands of the Aegean Some of these 'codes' changed (but not Section 2, 2a, 2b) on 1.1.16. So Section 3 in 1915 is Egypt, while in 1916 Sectuion 3 is Russia. In other words, be careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widwick Posted 13 April , 2004 Share Posted 13 April , 2004 Phil Thanks for correcting a silly omission Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee G Posted 13 April , 2004 Share Posted 13 April , 2004 Tony, Thanks for that. That's great detailed information. I wondered if he would have been too old for service in WW1 being born in 1883. The Territorial info seems to fit with his birth year. I'm still not quite 100% that this is my GGrandfather... I have a photo of him in uniform c.1924 with no medals. I would have thought he would have been proud to wear them on his wedding day (2nd marriage). Maybe it's a different Albert Bagnall! Is there any way that I could find out his age and abode upon joining? Is being disembodied the same as demobilised? Thanks, Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 13 April , 2004 Share Posted 13 April , 2004 Sorry, guys - but I don't think that, in war time, 12 years was the term required to obtain the TEM. Less time was required to achieve the medal, when on active service..... I think. I am sure someone will confirm this - or put me back in my box. All well & good except that this TEFM was awarded in A/O of 1914,so he qualified before the war started or @ least within 5 months of its beginning!so its back to the box for now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 13 April , 2004 Share Posted 13 April , 2004 Tony, Thanks for that. That's great detailed information. I wondered if he would have been too old for service in WW1 being born in 1883. The Territorial info seems to fit with his birth year. I'm still not quite 100% that this is my GGrandfather... I have a photo of him in uniform c.1924 with no medals. I would have thought he would have been proud to wear them on his wedding day (2nd marriage). Maybe it's a different Albert Bagnall! Is there any way that I could find out his age and abode upon joining? Is being disembodied the same as demobilised? Thanks, Lee If born in 1883 he would have been just 30~32 in 1914,He would have been 19 or so in 1902 when this Bagnall enlisted;Not too old,though older than most,as an experienced Terrier with 12 years or so standing he would have been a valuable asset to his battalion,with his service experience amongst the Raw recruits.Presumably you have checked his name on the 1901 Census & cross referenced his details with those in the MiCs,Perhaps he didnt wear his medals on his wedding day as his Wife said"Your not wearing those!" With regard to your other query I think I am right in saying Disembodient was the prior step to Full Demobilisation,And final discharge to the reserve Cl.Z;but as ever I stand to be Corrected! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee G Posted 13 April , 2004 Share Posted 13 April , 2004 Thanks HarryBettsMCDCM, Albert Bagnall was resident at the Military Arms (pub) in Sandbach, Cheshire in the 1901 census (aged 17). I'm a bit of a novice at this so apart from the card posted here on the forum how would I cross reference his details with those in the MiCs? Thanks, Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widwick Posted 13 April , 2004 Share Posted 13 April , 2004 Lee As an aside, Albert is living with parents and 8 bros/sis in Stafford Terrace in 1891. Certainly not too old. I have medals to a Territorial born 1873, signed up 1881, medically discharged 1895, signed up 1899, went to South Africa in the IY, out to France in 1915, wounded and taken POW within 3 weeks, survived, repatriated 1918, discharged with SWB in 1919 and re-enlisted for an extra year in 1920. He did get younger as time went on! - but times were hard after the war and extra shillings helped. You need to see if his records survived - if so Kew is where they'll be. Absent Voters Lists in the local county record office might tie home address to army unit. Local newspaper covering his marriage might have additional detail? Strange about his wedding photo - no medals. Some were so affected by all the horrors that they threw them out or pawned them - but that doesn't gel with a Territorial who continued serving. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee G Posted 13 April , 2004 Share Posted 13 April , 2004 Tony, I'm interested in your 1891 census information too. How did you come by this? Can I be cheeky and ask for the transcript!! I know that Alberts brothers also served with the cheshires... Thanks, Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee G Posted 13 April , 2004 Share Posted 13 April , 2004 Incidentally, I have a photo of a brass band outside the Military arms in Sandbach taken in 1913. Don't know whether this is a military band or not but I know there are a couple of the Bagnall family on here...>>>Baggy's Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 13 April , 2004 Share Posted 13 April , 2004 All well & good except that this TEFM was awarded in A/O of 1914,so he qualified before the war started or @ least within 5 months of its beginning!so its back to the box for now! The timing was exactly my point. This TEM could have been awarded at any time up until 31st December 1914. When the war commenced, every month served on active service counted as two months, to qualify for this medal. All I was trying to say was that in order for Lee to find out exactly when his relative enlisted in the Terriers he might have to allow a couple of months less than 12 years. I wasn't sure of this when I posted earlier. But I've since checked and this does appear to be the case. I thought this might be of use when searching through local papers etc for more information. I also thought that the one-month-equals-two-on-active-service information might also help others who find a Territorial Efficiency Medal on a MIC that they have downloaded. I do hope this makes you less angry. It's much better to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widwick Posted 13 April , 2004 Share Posted 13 April , 2004 RTpots Quite right - but I did say circa 1902. My grandfather enlisted autumn 1908 and was invalided out in 1917 but still qualified for the TFEM. The authorities didn't do their calculations until sometime later - by which time (1930) the TFEM had been replaced by the TEM - which is what they gave him. I have a letter from the Medal Office confirming the error. Lee He had 4 brothers: 1891 ages William 16 born Wheelock Robert 13 born Wheelock George 4 born Sandbach Harold 1 born Sandbach (Father John was a Saltmaker, mother Mary) If you contact me off Forum with your address I'll send you the image. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee G Posted 16 April , 2004 Share Posted 16 April , 2004 Thanks Tony, Got your 1891 census return this morning. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now