Sailor and wife leave baby with landlord and never come back

[Tom Morgan]

A birth certificate shows that Frederick William Perkins was born on 24th March, 1907, at 38, Church Road Boscombe. His parents are named as James William Perkins, a Marine Fireman, and Lillie Perkins.

In 1908, the family lodged with Frederick Wise, in Bournemouth.

The Wise family agreed to look after baby Frederick while the parents went to sea, but the parents never came back for him. The 1911 census records Frederick, aged 3, living with the Wise family as a lodger, in Dorset. Frederick stayed with the Wise family and eventually changed his name to Wise, though he was never officially adopted.

No-one has ever found out what happened to the Perkins couple.

There is a Seaman's Identity Certificate for a Merchant Seaman called James Perkins, whose rating is "Fireman" and whose next-of-kin is listed as "L Perkins (W)" - I assume the "(W)" means "wife". There is an address - 34, Trinity Street, Canning Town, E18. This James Perkins was born in London in 1876 so is about the right age to be Frederick's father. This Identity Certificate mentions the names of ships with dates from 1919 to 1921. I think that if it were possible to find out whether Fireman James Perkins served in the Great War, then it might be possible to find other records which mention him, and there might be further links to baby Frederick.

So the questions are....

Is it possible to find out if this James Perkins served in the Great War?

Does anyone know of any way of checking whether the James Perkins and his wife L Perkins (from the Seaman's Identity Certificate) could be the James William Perkins and Lillie Perkins from the Birth Certificate?

I do hope Pals can offer ideas for this one!

Tom

[John_Hartley]

Tom

I probably know less than you about researching merchant seaman but it might be worth you contacting the Maritime Museum at Liverpool. They do have extensive archives (although I'm not sure of what).

John

[Kath]

Tom,

I expect you know of this:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/community/p...73/default.aspx

Might help to get crew list for ships James William served on to check addresses.

Kath.

[Tom Morgan]

Thanks Kath - no, I didn't know about that request for the same information, but I thank you for finding it. I was asked to see what I could find by a member of my family, on behalf of a colleague I've never met. It looks as if the person requesting the same information on Genes Reunited (2007) is the wife of my contact. I've now found another similar request on Ancestry, dated June 2009, so it looks as if they have recently decided to try again with this line of research.

John - you couldn't possibly know less than me about this subject. thanks for the tip, mate. I'll pass it on.

Tom

[centurion]

It would be most unlikely for a marine fireman to take his wife to sea with him. However if it were a passenger ship she might also be part of the crew (stewardess, catering, nurse etc). Given the date of 1911 have you checked the Titanics crew list?

[Owen Hales]

Tom,

You don't say if you have a marraige cert for this couple, I assume you haven't. If you have, and it must be the original, the grooms signature should match the one in the Seamans ID card. The cert might even throw more light on his occupation.

Owen Hales

[apwright]

...James Perkins, whose rating is "Fireman" and whose next-of-kin is listed as "L Perkins (W)" - I assume the "(W)" means "wife". There is an address - 34, Trinity Street, Canning Town, E18. This James Perkins was born in London in 1876 ...

I think you can probably discount your James Perkins born London in 1876 for 2 reasons:

1. There are no James William Perkins's born in the London area for several years either side of 1876.

2. The 1911 census shows a Louisa Perkins, age 26, living in Trinity St, Canning Town, who could well be the mystery "L Perkins (W)".

Adrian

[Dragon]

Tom, I find this slightly confusing - but I have no experience of tracing family history, so I may be way off with this.

Looking at the Genes Reunited link given by Kath, the address is given as Church Road, Boscombe, and your information adds the house number as 38. (I haven't looked at the Ancestry reference you mentioned, as I'm not a member.)

I looked in the online Historical Directories, which only have 1898 and 1911 for this period, unfortunately. Looking only at Bournemouth and its environs, I searched on the various names given, located the hospitals and charitable institutions, and looked for possible commercial premises. I cannot find a Church Road mentioned in the entries either for Boscombe or for Bournemouth. Boscombe has a Christchurch Road, and that's the closest I can find.

I can find a Church Road in Southbourne. Looking at the online old OS maps, it was not there in 1898, but it was built during the next few years and I can see it in 1910. It seems to be a residential new-build. I can't find residents or even a listing for number 38, but there is a set of rentable apartments on Church Road, called High Croft House, with no number stated.

The other inquirer wondered about a possible hospital or institution. I can't find a hospital or charitable institution with an address of Church Road.

Is it possible that there is a slight mistake with the address? And if so, does it matter?

Gwyn

[Tom Morgan]

Gwyn, thanks for your interest. the address came from a birth certificate copy issued in 2006. Here is the relevant part.

Tom

[apwright]

Tom,

Does the birth cert show the mother's maiden name?

Adrian

EDIT: Sorry, just seen the Genes link - Walker/Walters. Please ignore!

[Tom Morgan]

Adrian - it's Walters.

[Tom Morgan]

I already thanked John H Kath and Gwyn, but thanks also to all the other Pals who have contributed.

Centurion - they don't appear on the Titanic passenger or crew lists, or on the "discharged" list ( crew members who were signed on for the voyage but who for one reason or another never joined the ship) or the crew which delivered the ship from Belfast to Southampton. There was only one Perkins on the whole ship - he was a telephone steward and his first name began with an "S" or possibly an "L".

Owen - thanks for your suggestion about signatures - a brilliant idea. However, it looks as if Adrian's investigations might have cancelled it out. Thanks to Adrian, too for his investigations - especially the discovery of Louisa Perkins in Canning Town.

Tom

[lucybella]

A birth certificate shows that Frederick William Perkins was born on 24th March, 1907, at 38, Church Road Boscombe. His parents are named as James William Perkins, a Marine Fireman, and Lillie Perkins.

In 1908, the family lodged with Frederick Wise, in Bournemouth.

No-one has ever found out what happened to the Perkins couple.

Hello

I am sure someone must have looked for death certificates for either Frederick William, or Lillie in or around 1908?

It is possible in that year that both parents died of TB or some other infectious disease (smallpox) etc, as these were rife, and uncontrollable at the time. I found that both my great grandparents died in 1904, leaving a young family.

Or perhaps just the mother Lillie died, and father maybe never was in a position to return, or felt the baby was in better hands there than with him?

Just thoughts,

Lucy

[CarylW]

Tom

Have you looked here? The Ellis Island databsase http://www.ellisisland.org/ has crew members listed on the ship manifests

Found quite a few James Perkins including this one

"Vessel Minnetonka arriving at New York 19th June 1924 from the port of London"

James Perkins aged 48, nationality British, is listed as a "greaser"

Some of the actual manifests are barely legible but James Perkins comes up quite a few times, same ship. I havent checked all the listings but there are others with different nationality/ethnicity

Is it possible that James Perkins decided to settle in America and brought his wife over? There are quite a few L & Lillian Perkins british female passengers listed USA bound

Caryl

[ph0ebus]

Hi,

If I might add to what Caryl said, on the manifests for ships coming into Ellis, they usually list an address from whence the traveller came...you can check that against their last known addredd to see if there is a match. Also important to note is the real possibility that they came over separately. He may have come first, saved up some money and sent the money back home to pay for her trip later.

-Daniel

[IPT]

You may already be aware but elsewhere it is mentioned that it is possible that they went to Australia, as other family members went there in 1912.

[The Majors Batman]

I have a strong feeling that Church Road Boscombe is now St Clements Road quite a few road names were changed,

Church Road is mentioned many times on http://www.opcdorset.org/Bournemouth/BournemouthStClemMarrs1896-1899.htm but St Clements Road does not appear at all .

http://www.streets-of-bournemouth.org.uk/view/image/item/st_clements_road/6710

Another road renamed was Hanover Road to Wilson Road during WW1 due to its Germanic name.

[Magnumbellum]

A birth certificate shows that Frederick William Perkins was born on 24th March, 1907, at 38, Church Road Boscombe. His parents are named as James William Perkins, a Marine Fireman, and Lillie Perkins.

In 1908, the family lodged with Frederick Wise, in Bournemouth.

The Wise family agreed to look after baby Frederick while the parents went to sea, but the parents never came back for him. The 1911 census records Frederick, aged 3, living with the Wise family as a lodger, in Dorset. Frederick stayed with the Wise family and eventually changed his name to Wise, though he was never officially adopted.

No-one has ever found out what happened to the Perkins couple.

Since adoption did not become a legal concept until 1 January 1927, when the Adoption Act 1926 came into force, Frederick could not realistically have been adopted - he was rising 20 by then.

Prior to the Adoption Act, unofficial "adoptions" took place by arrangement between families. The possibility arises that this was a case of agreed informal adoption, with a "cover" story for posterity of effective abandonment.

[Tom Wales]

From the way I read the first entry the birth certificate and seaman's identity certificate are not yet positively linked at source , therefore the signature idea is a good one.

If the certificate is linked it would prove that the father James Perkins was still alive in 1921 so you can therefore rule out the Titanic. It is possible (albeit painstakingly) to work backwards from ship to ship by using crew agreements which show the last ship served on as a reference against the seaman's name . The certificate itself apparently mentions the names of ships - it may also have the original numbers of the ships which could be used to seek out the crew agreements. If you look up this thread elsewhere in this forum --John George Dove(s) RNR and Merchant Marine -- there is information about seaman's certificates and what they contain in terms of references. Crew agreements may be located in a number of places which are noted if you follow this link.

http://www.rmg.co.uk/researchers/library/research-guides/the-merchant-navy/tracing-people-crewlists-agreements-logs

[Simon Mills]

You could also try the link below, which will take you to the Central Index of Merchant Seamen, at Southampton:

http://www.southampton.gov.uk/s-leisure/artsheritage/history/maritimehistory/centralindex.aspx

They only started keeping such detailed records during WWI, but if he was still serving in 1918 or if he survived the war then you may find the man you are looking for.

S.