Robert Dunlop Posted 24 August , 2009 Share Posted 24 August , 2009 A superb addition to "The German Army at..." stable. Fabulous. The anecdotal accounts of the fighting would be worth it on their own, but Jack has added a whole layer of information about the various levels of command. In addition, the after action conclusions make fascinating reading. Highly recommended! Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 25 August , 2009 Share Posted 25 August , 2009 Robert Very many thanks for your kind words, which I much appreciate. The relatively short period with which I was dealing gave me more chance than usual to expand the scope of the research and thus the ultimate text, whilst staying within the overall word limit. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 25 August , 2009 Share Posted 25 August , 2009 Jack, it was also interesting to read about the indirect impact that Third Ypres had on the battle. Particularly your point about risk-taking elsewhere in order to maintain the effort against the Anglo-French attacks east of Ypres. When taken alongside your description of the debates over the Hindenburg Line, these form an interesting impression of the effects of the attritional battles. Another important contribution of the book. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halder Posted 28 August , 2009 Share Posted 28 August , 2009 Amazon took an age and a day to put up my review-ette, but have finally done so... A couple of things which I didn't mention on Amazon: one is the font which does seem to be getting easier to read. Perhaps my eyes are attuned to it after four volumes and a decade of reading Fraktur! The other is a very minor quibble: I really liked the way the maps were done in the previous volumes, marking where the participants mentioned in the text were - I thought it was a simple yet excellent way of following the battle (so much so that I, ahem, 'borrowed' the idea for my Poland book...) but I didn't see them this time. It's refreshing to see P&S got the images right; it's alarming how many books from Barnsley cross my desk with pixelated photographs - there's no excuse for it in the publishing world these days. All the photos reproduced here are top notch. Anyway, a first-rate read. Our debt to Jack grows deeper and deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 28 August , 2009 Share Posted 28 August , 2009 Jack Just received my copy today. Having skimmed through it I know that I am going to learn much. Some fascinating photographs also enhance it. It is certainly going to prove invaluable when the Royal Tank Regiment next revisits the battlefield - November 2012. I am PMing you separately about this. Once again, many congratulations! Your books are doing much to educate us on what was happening on the other side of the wire. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 29 August , 2009 Share Posted 29 August , 2009 Robert, Halder and Charles Many thanks for your various comments which are appreciated. I did examine the possibility of including maps with witness locations, but the maps were already busy and we had trouble in devising a worthwhile method for the day 1 fighting in particular. The hope was that detailed maps of the Havrincourt-flesquieres sector would enable to reader to locate all the trench locations named in the text. However I take your point and will be trying it again in Ypres 1914. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Connolly Posted 29 August , 2009 Share Posted 29 August , 2009 Being an utter cheapskate, may I ask if this is the hardback or paperback? In my defence I did buy Jack's first venture once it came out in paperback. What's that? He's written other books since then? Oh dear, more wallet-hoovers ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerookery Posted 2 October , 2009 Share Posted 2 October , 2009 The best of the four books! Perhaps I'm biased because of the tanks, perhaps I'm biased because of the underdog nature of the story but this is really well done. It seems to me that Jack is just getting better at this. I mean, it was wonderful on the Somme, and I learned so much, but it is like the researching and storytelling has fallen into a wonderful tempo. You are given the nuances of personality clashes and distrust between the different levels of command. There is no conceivable way that I could have pulled that out, of German language sources by myself. Jack Sheldon hands it to you in great detail and explanation. The sheer number of tanks is brought home at the lower levels. And whereas one group may have dealt with six or seven successfully, there were hundreds. You rise and fall with the hopes and disappointments of the various individuals all the way from the original defense through the counterattack. The immensity of the counterattack was a real discovery to me. I actually found myself turning the page wanting to see what was on the other side. Jack not only reports what was written, but challenges the original author when something does not make sense or is not supported elsewhere. This leads you on an entire separate area of enjoyment. The footnotes or endnotes at the end of each chapter are absolutely essential. There is sometimes the most clarifying information tossed into an endnote. “Sometimes you just feel like saying "good job Jack. I hadn't thought of that.” All of the maps are in the back. I think it must be an American thing that the terrain of these European battlefields are less embedded in our psyche. I always find it useful, if not required to get a totally separate map and place it down where I can refer to it constantly. I started this practice on Vimy Ridge and it is not a shortcoming, but rather a very good enhancement obviating the requirements to flip back and forth. Having a separate map, I find makes everything fit together wonderfully, and you can follow the story. So when does the next book come out???? I don't know how the book distribution setup goes but this is worth the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 2 October , 2009 Share Posted 2 October , 2009 A very good book! Easy reading, fascinating and straight to the point Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 7 October , 2009 Share Posted 7 October , 2009 Confused of Eastleigh writes: I am reading this at present, and am utterly bewildered. In Chapter 2 (I think it is - dealing with the first day's attack), the end notes have lost the plot. After about number 20, they seemed to skip 2, so, for example, when reading the text and then referring to foot note 35, I discovered it was actually foot note 37, and so on. I haven't gone back to examine how and where this happened, but it is mightily confusing. Hasn't affected my enjoyment of the book, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 25 October , 2009 Share Posted 25 October , 2009 Following on from my last post: I have now returned to this book after a couple of weeks of work-related reading, and the chapter-end notes are even more confusing. returning to Chapter Two, "The First Clash", I see that the end notes run (on page 90) to 64 (a comment about British cavalry use on the 20th November); yet in the text (page 87), this is noted as end-note 62, and there are none subsequent. So somewhere in Chapter two we have lost or gained (depending which way you look at it) two end-notes. Then, Chapter Three, "The Attack Continues", on page 136 we reach a total of 72 end notes for the chapter, yet in the text (on page 131) we reach a reference to end-note 76 - so in this chapter we have gained (or lost) two end-notes. I await the rest of the book with interest! So far at least they're cancelling each other out in terms of numbers. (Please note - end or otherwise - this is not a criticism of the book, which is, as ever, excellent; it is just slightly irritating that proof-reading has again let down a book which deserves better) Of course, it could be my copy, but I doubt it. Has anyone else noticed the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 25 October , 2009 Share Posted 25 October , 2009 I can confirm that my copy is the same so I'm afraid you do not have a unique copy which you could flog at Sotheby's for a small fortune. I hadn't noticed this as I generally read a chapter through and then read the footnotes through. I really prefer my footnotes at the foot of the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 25 October , 2009 Share Posted 25 October , 2009 Another money-making scheme scotched. It's not signed, though, if that helps. I tend to read a bookmark at the back of the chapter and flick across every so often. I believe the placement of footnotes has been the subject of discussion here before, with no real conclusion: maybe we should have a Poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 25 October , 2009 Share Posted 25 October , 2009 maybe we should have a Poll. I say, that's a bit extreme. I'm heading for the bunker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 25 October , 2009 Share Posted 25 October , 2009 I'll start the Poll and come with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Oh dear. I am sorry to hear that that has slipped through the net. When this particular book was set, P&S pre-production was in transition and the first proofs were very difficult to work through, with a great many foot note errors. They were then checked and corrected thoroughly by me, by Nigel Cave and the official proof reader and, if you had raised this when the third iteration was heading back to Barnsley, I should have said that all the problems had been eliminated - clearly not, so sorry about that. We had an experience with one of the other books that the automatic footnote numbering system got electronic hiccups between final proof and printing and introduced a few errors. I suppose that it may have happened again. Glad to hear, however, that it has not detracted from your enjoyment. I shall strive to look even harder at them next time round. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Thanks, Jack - these things happen, and (as I said) hasn't affected enjoyment. Interestingly, I am finding it very useful to have Bryn Hammond's book to hand for a bit of cross-checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Yes, Bryn's version is excellent. There are a few German snippets in it which I passed on to him. Unfortunately he did not get on to me until late in his preparation so I could only provide a few bits and pieces. I am hoping that in time the two books will be regarded as complementary and trust that you are finding more points of agreement than clashes Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Jack, I have just finished Bryns excellent book and am well into chapter one of yours...a must read follow on to get the other side. From what I have read so far the german command system was not so hot...lower ranks dictating to the Corps commanders etc...not good for unified command, morale and accountability. I have learned something new so far and cannot wait to get into the heart of the book. Thanks for all four books...long overdue and at last the german side...things really werent rosy over the wire and scotches the myths of incompetent allies and superior Prussians!! Many thanks TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn_Hammond Posted 1 November , 2009 Share Posted 1 November , 2009 Yes, Bryn's version is excellent. There are a few German snippets in it which I passed on to him. Unfortunately he did not get on to me until late in his preparation so I could only provide a few bits and pieces. I am hoping that in time the two books will be regarded as complementary and trust that you are finding more points of agreement than clashes Jack The 'bits and pieces' were a bit more than that but very welcome! I am due to review Jack's book for the Birmingham Centre for First World War Studies AND for the British Commission for Military History - although why they asked me I can't imagine... It is safe to say, even at this stage, that any review will be glowing! I've learnt a lot from Jack's account - especially about the state of preparedness of the German forces prior to the battle and the preparations for the German counter-attack.* The 'complementary' thought had occurred to me too. So, all we need now is an obliging millionaire film maker who wants to buy the rights to both books and make the definitive movie of the battle, and we'll both be in clover... Bryn * If you don't know what these matters I allude to are, perhaps I might venture to recommend a couple of recently-published books on the subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Ring Posted 2 November , 2009 Share Posted 2 November , 2009 Yes, Bryn's version is excellent. There are a few German snippets in it which I passed on to him. Unfortunately he did not get on to me until late in his preparation so I could only provide a few bits and pieces. I am hoping that in time the two books will be regarded as complementary and trust that you are finding more points of agreement than clashes Jack Jack After all the good "press" I have read I am going to have to buy your good book. If I am unable to find it down here I will try Amazon. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Holstein Posted 7 November , 2009 Share Posted 7 November , 2009 I’m coming in a bit late on this one, having just finished reading Cambrai. It’s not an area that I know at all well and I found it really interesting to be able to read such detailed personal accounts of the experience of men at all levels and, in particular, of all branches. It not only made clear the chaos and confusion caused by the offensive but the astonishing effort made by all ranks, including the frequently overlooked logistics corps, to mount the counter offensive in such a short time. I was also fascinated by the picture that the extracts give of the interplay between the top commanders – indeed, the rivalries, likes and dislikes that emerge from them made me wonder sometimes how the Germans managed to continue the war for so long. The only problem I had was with the maps. No doubt Pen & Sword has its reasons for doing it as they do but as a reader I wish the maps could have been interspersed throughout the book rather than placed in a single section at the end. I also wish they could show some colour and – for non-specialist readers - an indication of north. Also, although I read German fluently I wasn’t altogether comfortable with the use of long German titles, which for me break up the smooth flow of the text. But those are very minor quibbles and it’s a great book. Jack, I hope you are really proud of it. Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 7 November , 2009 Share Posted 7 November , 2009 Christina, Bryn and Tony Many thanks for your kind words. Christina, We keep tweaking the way the maps are presented in the series and went for a map section because it was hard in some cases to select the correct location in the text, but I take the point. It will probably be different again for Ypres 1914, when there will probably be eye witness lcoation maps included. Bryn, I like the film idea. I cannot see there being much of a chance, but we could get together on the screenplay. Even with modern computer generated imagery, somebody would probably have to commission the odd replica Mark IV and would not that be good? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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