Gallipoli and Haig books

[kenf48]

I have very little knowledge of the actual fighting at Gallipoli. I am more interested in how it came to be fought and the political battle to apportion and evade blame for its failure. I have not come across an Australian author dealing with this aspect but if there is one, I'd be grateful for a pointer. Not many seem to share this interest in why the ANZACs joined their British and French allies in this ultimately futile struggle...

As an introduction to some of the points you raise I recommend 'The ANZACS Gallipoli to the Western Front by Peter Pedersen http://preview.tinyurl.com/ycsfohx a fairly recent book and well balanced discussion by a respected Australian historian. A good overview of political as well as military considerations especially for the UK reader. Superb production values too excellent illustrations and side note biographies of those who led or fought with distinction. Apart from the initial enthusiasm and late twentieth century nationalism it's often overlooked that the war was not popular in Australia and twice, when given the choice in a referendum, the Australian people voted against conscription. Many of the initial recruits were recent British immigrants and it is often surprising going through UK newspapers obituaries the number of former residents attached to the ANZAC forces.

As for the ANZAC involvement in the Gallipoli fiasco the key word for the campaign was improvisation, from the failure of the initial naval bombardment. All the leaders were, essentially, Victorians and had managed to rule a huge Empire by gunboat diplomacy for the previous century. The Australians were destined for the Western Front but were sent to Egypt for training as UK training camps were full. Having completed their initial training together with other British and French troops in Egypt, they happened to be available in theatre for the initial amphibious landing.

Another 'what if' of history.

Ken

(Leaving with tin hat on for attempting an assessment in one para.!)

[truthergw]

Thank you for the recommendation, Ken. I will have to look out for the book. For what it is worth, I agree with your first paragraph's statement about how many ANZACs were emigrants. The political and social conditions in Australia and New Zealand as well as in Britain, have changed so much since these days that I wonder if we can ever hope to understand how the Diggers and Kiwis saw themselves in relation to Britain.

[bluedog]

Tom

In my readings of the times, Aussies in Egypt at least,when meetig with British

troops still regarded England as "Home"

Peter

[truthergw]

Hi Peter. It is probably worth a thread to itself but I suspect that any discussion on how Australasians saw themselves at the time of the Great War would end in an argument. I am old enough to remember the emigration schemes as they existed just after WW2. Like most British people I have relatives and friends scattered over the globe. My experience is that the emigrants very often continued to regard themselves as Scots even though they were fiercely proud of their new homes and had every intention of ending their days there. Their children think of themselves as citizens of the country they were born in but with a special feeling for Scotland. They are Canadians, South Africans, Australians and New Zealanders and so on. I have no reason to believe the situation was any different in 1914. The main difference would be in the idea that anyone who felt he was British might well feel it her or his patriotic duty to return home to the Old Country to fight or offer his or her services. It was, after all, the normal state of affairs to spend a working lifetime abroad in a colony and retire to Britain when the time came. Also, civil servants and servicemen would routinely spend many years abroad and return to finish their careers in London. It was common then for a person to spend ten or twenty years abroad and still be British. There are tremendous ramifications here touching on class and national patriotism and it would be well off topic in the book review section.

[bluedog]

Tom

I too still remember the first boatloads of "10 pound tourists" to Australia.

The vast majority made a very valuable contribution to Australia and New Zealand,

however it was the very small minority that cast a shadow over the others who, at times,

threw a blanket over the rest and resulted in all UK immigrants being labeled as

"Whingeing Poms"

Peter