Regimental rivalry

[PhilB]

Back in the 50s, when we still had virtually all the regiments of WW1 vintage, there were certain regiments, mainly City regiments (Manchesters, Liverpools, HLI etc), which had "hard" reputations and which couldn`t be posted together in the same place. For instance, in Minden, Germany, we had the Manchesters and the Berkshires together (no trouble). I`ve never come across any instances of such inter-regimental rivalry in WW1, but I suppose they must have existed, often because of happenings long ago. Anyone heard of any? Phil B

[bkristof]

I heard the Black Watch and the Gordon highlanders were not best friends...

[Desmond7]

The 'Young Citizens Volunteers' btn of the Ulster Division were often branded 'chocolate soldiers' by other units in the division because it was essentially a 'posh' battalion consisting largely of Belfast's lower-middle class clerks, skilled men etc.

There are a few 'read between the lines' accounts of 'slagging' but not documented fisticuffs that I've come across.

[Johnny S]

Not two different regiments, but I've heard of rivalry leading to bloodshed, broken bones and bruises between two battalions of the same regiment wherever they met. These are the 4th and the 5th Battalions of the East Lancashires.

John

[Malcolm]

Not two different regiments, but I've heard of rivalry leading to bloodshed, broken bones and bruises between two battalions of the same regiment wherever they met. These are the 4th and the 5th Battalions of the East Lancashires.

John

Same goes for 1/8th and 1/5th Argyle and Sutherlands.

Aye

Malcolm

[PhilB]

I`m really surprised at these cases of intra-regimental hostility, especially in the East Lancs. (I was brought up in Blackburn). Presumably it was Blackburn v Bolton rivalry?

Your point Desmond makes me wonder if there was a deal of hostility between "posh" battalions, of which there quite a number, and the "unposh" ones. Imagine the scene in the estaminet, occupied by RFA drivers and HLI, when the Public School Bn men breezed in! Phil B

[Johnny S]

I`m really surprised at these cases of intra-regimental hostility, especially in the East Lancs. (I was brought up in Blackburn). Presumably it was Blackburn v Bolton rivalry?

Nearly, but no, it was a Blackburn/Burnley rivalry. A rivalry that continued up to only 15 years or so ago within the Companies of the 4th Bn QLR.

John.

[PhilB]

Johnny:_ I suppose in those days the Burnley battalion would be largely miners and the \Blackburn battalion largely cotton mill men. Enough to cause problems! Phil B

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

There was a certain rankling between Irish soldiers of the 2nd Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers and the English replacements who joined the Bn after the 2nd Ypres.

And of course everyone got on with the MFP & MMP

Ian

[Desmond7]

Phil B - Thanks to Annette Burgoyne I was able to have a laugh at the following scenario:-

Denys Reitz of Boer Commando fame did some time with the Royal Irish Rifles in the 16th (Irish) Division. He recalled how, while both Divs wee 'out of the line' a section of Irish Div. men were sent over to the Ulster Div. QM stores to get some water.

Back they came,opened up the containers to find that the Ulster Div men - with obvious 'Orange' connections - had hastily slapped labels on a lot of the bottles. The label read: 'Boyne Water'.

Reitz says the Irish Div were ready for a riot, then calmed down, had a laugh and then played the Ulster Div at football the next day.

It seems both Divs got on well in combat scenarios but there are also references to prisoners from 16th and 36th being 'very cool' towards each other towards the end of the war in German POW camps.

Des

[kingsman64]

Hi all

interesting thread, just a couple of tales which will make the badge collectors smile

It is recorded that a member of the Liverpool Pal's 17th 18th 19th and 20th Battalion of the Kings Liverpool Regiment was returning to his unit after some very rare home leave. He was wearing the solid silver Pal's cap badge, Eagle and Child family motto Sans Changer (the personal gift from Lord Derby to the original Pal's) When he was spotted on the station platform by a RSM of the Liverpool Regiment, as he was wearing normal "King's" brass shoulder titles and not the usual "City Battalion" type the RSM is supposed to have shouted something along the lines of "Hey you get a move on and if you are in the King's get that duck of yer 'at and get a 'orse up there where it should be".!

It is also recorded that the 11th Battalion of the Border Regiment, the Lonsdale Pals? I think where also given a Solid Silver Badge by Lord Lonsdale when in a camp in southern England awaiting the move to France a pitch battle took place with a Battalion of local "Terriers" and a lot of the badges where taken as spoils of war! Wouldn't mind a few of those, going for an amazing £500 a piece if you can find one.

[CROONAERT]

Nearly, but no, it was a Blackburn/Burnley rivalry. A rivalry that continued up to only 15 years or so ago within the Companies of the 4th Bn QLR.

John.

Hell. I remember that rivalry!!! It was still in existance more recently than 15 years ago though. It seemed to have come to a head when our drill hall in Burnley was closed down (circa 1993) and "E (Burnley)Coy." transferred to the newly built Somme Barracks in Blackburn. We were not happy!!!

Dave.