Quinnes Post Posted 24 February , 2003 Share Posted 24 February , 2003 According to the war graves commission my grandfather died of wounds in August 1915 and was buried in Westouter nr Ypres. His details are John Wright No 12/1218 1st Bat Kings Own yorkshire Light Infantry (KOYLI). I have seen the grave. Unfortunately when building the family tree I find my father was born in Jan 1918. There is an obvious answer but I have tried looking for alternatives as I have read that the WGC records can be wrong. I cannot find his papers at Kew but the war diaries for his brigade state that he was transfered to the 5th battalion on 5th May 1915 during the 2nd battle of Ypres. From there the trail has gone cold.The only way i can reconsile the events is that the date of death his wrong but if so how did grandad get back to UK in 1917 then back to the war to get killed? Any ideas please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 24 February , 2003 Share Posted 24 February , 2003 The Soldiers Died CD gives the same date... Died of Wounds 31.08.15 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stoner Posted 25 February , 2003 Share Posted 25 February , 2003 Titch John Wright is a very common name, are you 100% sure that this is your Grandfather? If it is, then it is not uncommon for CWGC and SDGW to differ in facts but if they are the same, then it is generally considered that the fact is true (not always). Have you got a birthplace for your GF and have you checked this against SDGW. Sorry if I am stating the obvious and you have already been down these tracks but it might be worth a look?! Also is your fathers birthdate a confirmed fact (birth cert.) or are you just working on his age? Again, sorry if I'm clutching at straws but I've had first hand experience of "following up the wrong leads". Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 25 February , 2003 Share Posted 25 February , 2003 CWGC is not utterly infallible; I have a photograph of a privately purchased gravestone in a churchyard in Norfolk of a Pte, MGC who was killed on active service in Ireland in 1921. The stone - according to the inscription - was paid for by subscription by all ranks of the MGC Bn he was in. But for quite a while, whilst his CWGC entry was indeed MGC, it said he was KIA F&F in.. August 1915. A number of difficulties here: he was 13 in 1915. The MGC didn't exist until October 15. We have a picture of the grave.. Admittedly, CWGC were prompt to react and correct it in return for our provision of documentation. There is a faint chance of a clerical error like this, I suppose?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robwilliams Posted 27 February , 2003 Share Posted 27 February , 2003 Have you a copy of your father's birth certificate? What does it say in the boxes for father's name and father's occupation? Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 28 February , 2003 Share Posted 28 February , 2003 By way of confirmation you could check your grandfather's death certificate and, if you know where your father lived as a boy, you could check him on the 1921 Census returns; that will give details of his age. The PRO will tell you where to find both. While it is not unknown for the CWGC to make mistakes, your suspicions may be true. People who are doing family history should be warned against this; they can find out things which can come as unpleasant surprise. I recently had to take a copy of my birth certificate. While I was waiting in the Registrar's Office there was an elderly couple trying to get a copy of their granparent's wedding certificate; they knew (or thought they knew) the town, the church and date (1907). The Registrar could not find anything; searches around the date, the town and similarly named churches in neighbouring towns revealed nothing. As the search progressed one could see a very large and emotionally-charged penny start to drop: gran and grandad were not married. Then the supplementary questions were asked: why were they not married? what was the impediment? To which answer came there none. When they had left the Registrar said, with a wry upwards shift of the eye-brows: 'we get a lot of that sort of thing'. Succeeding generations pay a heavy price for the preservation of Victorian and Edwardian notions of genteel respectability. Speaking of which, my understanding is that the WW1 soldiers' service records which have been released to the public have been purged of any references to visits the soldier may have been forced to make to Rose Cottage, a lovely name used by the navy for what is today known as the sexually transmitted disease clinic. Is this true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 28 February , 2003 Share Posted 28 February , 2003 Hedley I recently did some research for someone keen to know about Grandads war service. From his records at the PRO I discovered he had been in and out of Hospital with Herpes for most of the war. Not sure how he explained that to his wife at home but it was certainly an eye opener to his Grandson. In this case there was no attempt to remove the information. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 28 February , 2003 Share Posted 28 February , 2003 Raster, Herpes comes in various shapes and forms, not all of which are STD, such as shingles. Are you sure you are not unfairly besmiriching your Grandad's service record - if you'll forgive the phrase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenwoodman Posted 28 February , 2003 Share Posted 28 February , 2003 Pulled out an officer's record recently at the PRO that had him treated for two STDs!! How would you pass that on if you were doing the research for someone else?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 28 February , 2003 Share Posted 28 February , 2003 Hedley frustratingly I cannot find the copies I made at the time but I am pretty sure it was quite clearly an STD. I will have a rummage over the weekend. If not I will have to check again at the PRO. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 28 February , 2003 Share Posted 28 February , 2003 Canadian service records are also very graphic. They record any and all venereal diseases and treatments etc. However the most shocking reference I had ever come across in a service record was while doing research for a family on their great uncle killed in 1917. I nearly fell off my chair when I read this entry: "Sentenced to two years hard labour for committing the offence of gross indecency with another male person" (The soldiers sentence was later reduced , and he was sent back to this battalion where he was killed in Aug 1917 at Hill 70.) I decided for two reasons to edit these references from his descendants. First, I know this would have been upsetting for the family today, who obviously have a different view of their relative. Second, would this soldier, if he had the choice, have wanted me to share this information with his family? I was certain the answer would have been no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt York Posted 28 February , 2003 Share Posted 28 February , 2003 Australian service records don't hold anything back either, they record all instances of VD, along with the time spent in hospital. I've come across some men being treated for VD whilst aboard the troopships heading for the BEF or MEF. Obviously a parting present! from the embarkation ports in Australia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 28 February , 2003 Share Posted 28 February , 2003 I sa a printed Candian form that called for time and number of last drunk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 28 February , 2003 Share Posted 28 February , 2003 ... (snip) ... I've come across some men being treated for VD whilst aboard the troopships heading for the BEF or MEF. Obviously a parting present! from the embarkation ports in Australia... The treatment for syphilis in the days before modern anti-biotics was quite horrific involving mercury injections over a period of years. My great-uncle, who was in the RA during WW1, told me of one lesson on sex education (as in prophylactics, for the use of,) ended with the follwing imprecation from the MO. "Remember this men: two minutes with Venus can mean a lifetime with Mercury". I thought that was quite good ... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robwilliams Posted 28 February , 2003 Share Posted 28 February , 2003 Just to say that the 1921 Census will not be available for another 20 years. Any attempt to look for an address will have to be made through the voters list. I, too, have spent years working on the family tree, what does it say about me? I'm hoping for something out of the ordinary!! Closest I've got is an ancestor who did not marry, had two kids and there has never been a hint of the father's details. On a wedding certificate the mother had her details entered where the father's should have been. Sounds like a feisty woman. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Bosano-Andrews Posted 23 February , 2004 Share Posted 23 February , 2004 Hedley With reference to trips to the Rose Cottage, my G Grand Uncles papers contain a full record of all his trips, four in total, for treatment, so extensive and prolonged that I'm surprisded he was able to stand at all never mind fight a war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Bosano-Andrews Posted 23 February , 2004 Share Posted 23 February , 2004 Ok I'm being a bit slow today, if anyone reads this I do now realise that this thread is a year old doh!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger Posted 23 February , 2004 Share Posted 23 February , 2004 Pulled out an officer's record recently at the PRO that had him treated for two STDs!! How would you pass that on if you were doing the research for someone else?? Eddie, At least you drew my attention to this. The answer is you can't, same as you can't get it off toilet seats either. Sorry greenwoodman but it made me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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