Heavy Branch Machine Gun (Tank) Corps

[Brett]

My great-uncle Harold Victor Payne (1898-1921) - shown in the photograph below - served with the Heavy Branch Machine Gun Corps (Tank Corps), but I have been told that his service records have not survived. Members of this forum obviously have great resources and knowledge, and I wonder whether anyone would be able to help me find out more about his experiences during the war, please.

I have very little to go on, but this is what I have discovered so far:

- Harold Victor PAYNE was born in Derby on 4 January 1898, and died there on 1 May 1921.

- I have a photo of him taken in Derby, and in a civilian suit, which is dated on the reverse "HV Payne July 1918". It's possible that he joined up after this event, or it could merely have been taken while he was on leave.

- I have a postcard from him addressed to his mother, dated 22 November 1919, and obviously sent when he was in Cologne awaiting demobilization. Written on the reverse is "Pte H Payne 315778 B.A.O.R."

- An entry in the Medal Roll shows that Pte Harold Victor Payne, 315778, Tank Corps, was awarded the British War Medal and the British Military Medal, indicating active service abroad during or after 1916.

Bearing in mind that his service records no longer exist, is there any way to find out from the information that I have, or from the photos that I will include in this and subsequent postings, when he joined up, the exact unit in which he served, what their movements were, when he was demobilized etc.

Thanks very much for your time. I look forward to hearing any ideas, and will be very grateful for any help received.

Regards and best wishes,

Brett

[Brett]

Another photo of HV Payne, unfortunately unannotated so I have no idea where or when it was taken. Presumably it was some time in 1918 or 1919, and possibly in occupied Germany. Does anyone have any ideas about the walls of this building? The number above the doorway is "44", and to the right appears to be an open wooden shutter.

[Brett]

The last photo in this series shows Harold (seated at centre) and friends, obviously with plenty of time on their hands, lighting up! Again, undated.

Thanks, in anticipation, for any help with this little project.

Regards and best wishes,

Brett

[perce620]

the last photo shows what looks like hospital fatigues so perhaps he was wounded at some time. If he was awarded the military medal he will be mentioned in the london gazette

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Interesting - I have researched a number of Tank Corps men. Three of them were RFC Motor Mechanics who were compulsorily transferred to the TC on 31 March 1918 just prior to the formation of the RAF. They all had regimental numbers in the range 309000 - 309200. This might be of use in pinpointing a time when your gt-uncle entered the Corps.

Did the medal roll give his TC Battalion?

It looks from his attire in the first picture more like he was a Crewman than a Mechanic.

Ian

[Brett]

Thanks Ian. So I suppose the regimental number being higher than your 309... lot suggest that he entered the Corps after March 1918.

Actually I don't know whether or not the Medal Roll provided his TC Battalion, since it was looked up for me. However, I presume not, otherwise I should have been informed.

Regards, Brett

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Brett,

Yes you are right. The Tank Corps was heavily engaged in early 1918 and the need for replacements was acute with large drafts being sent to France in August 1918.

I would suggest that ascertaining his TC Bn this is the next step in your search.

I am interested in why you say that he served in the Heavy Branch MGC. By the time the 315000 number series men were in the Unit, it was strictly just the Tank Corps and most of the men were direct entrants or transfers from other Units.

I shall be at the PRO on Saturday - I would be more than happy to look up his medal roll entry. Now I don't know this for certain at all but I reckon it will say either 14th or 15th Bn, more likely 15th Bn - I am just thinking out loud here so don't take it as gospel/kosher.

Ian

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

A Tank Corps cap badge - original I should add:

Ian

[Brett]

Hi Ian,

I only mentioned the Heavy Branch MGC because I read that it was a precursor to the Tank Corps, and I really have no idea whether he had joined at that time or not. Thanks for the offer to look at the Medal Rolls - I'd be very grateful for whatever you can find.

Great image of the cap badge - much appreciated! Having noticed the roughly circular badge on his cap in my pictures, I wondered what it looked like.

Regards and best wishes, Brett

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Brett,

The picture I posted was the Tank Corps cap bage as worn by your gt-uncle

Ian

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Brett,

Well the medal roll did not yield any Battalion information. However your gt-uncle is bundled in alpha order with a group of men in the 315500 to 315824 number range. A quick search of SDGW reveals 3 casualties in this number range: 315518, 315527 and 315606. In all cases their unit is given as Reinforcement Depot, their dates of death were between 20 October and 7 November 1918 and they had previously served with the Training Reserve.

OK so where does this leave us?

It is quite likely that your gt-uncle served with the same unit, Reinforcement Depot, at the same time.

I have a the history of the Tank Corps at home and might delve in to this a bit further when I get home.

I hope this helps.

Ian

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Brett,

I have had a look thru 'The TanK Corps' by Williams-Ellis, but cannot find any reference to the Reinforcement Depot.

Ian

[Brett]

Morning Ian,

Thank you very much for going to all this effort on my behalf. I'm very grateful. Yes, it does seem likely that he served with the Reinforcement Depot, and I will keep this information in mind for future reference.

Regards and best wishes, Brett