HMS Glory

[harriottbrand]

Does any one out there know of a Captain Hunt of HMS Glory in Archangel and Murmansk 1919?

My grandmother had tea on the ship after being smugglied on board by motor launch whilst she was berthed in Archangel on July 7th 1919.He claimed to have been at Greenwich Naval College with her brother, Rear Admiral Kenelm Everard Fitzgerald Creighton.

I've drawn a blank to his existence so far so if you are related or know of him please send me any details. Thanks.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Welcome to the forum

The officers allocated to ships are usually shown in the Navy List.

Officer's service records are now online for example:

Name Creighton, Kenelin Everard Lane

Date of Birth: 10 January 1883

Rank: Rear Admiral

Date record opened 15 May 1897

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=7

Pictures http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/hms_glory_1899.htm

[sadsac]

Harriot, welcome, nothing on Capt. Hunt I am afraid, but here are details of awards to crew of GLORY whilst in Murmansk ;

SIMPSON Cecil N/E Lt.Cdr(E) RN 88X872 & 872a Glory & Cyclops

S.N.O. White Sea 12.12.19 N/E Post War - Russia 1918 - 1919 DSO

This officer arrived in Archangel on the 5th February, 1919, during the ice period he was most energetic and carried out all duties required of him in the most thorough manner - especially in the way of co-operating with Russian and other departments in North Russia. At the request of the late Commander S.W.B. Green, Senior Naval Officer, River Dvina, I sent Engineer Lieutenant-Commander Simpson up river with the first of H.M. Ships after the ice run as Flotilla Engineer Officer. He has remained up river the whole of the summer campaign, and has been present and has been present at all active operations. The late Commander Green always spoke to me, whenever I met him up river, in the highest terms of Simpson's energetic and good service, for whatever he was called upon to perform. After the late Commander Green was relieved by Captain Altham as Senior Naval Officer River Simpson continued to serve with the River Force, but in a subordinate capacity to Engineer Commander Lyon. Apart from any mention which Simpson may receive in S.N.O. (R's) Despatches - I recommend him very strongly for early and special promotion to Engineer Commander. He is a most energetic, has an exceptionally good command of men, is a good organiser and has excellent character and judgment. In addition to an excellent knowledge of the ordinary types of service machinery, he has a special knowledge of submarines and internal combustion machinery and repair work, and is in every way fitted to hold the rank of Engineer Commander.

BROWN Cecil T N/E Captain RMA 88X874 Glory

S.N.O. White Sea 12.12.19 N/E Post War - Russia 1918 - 1919 OBE(M) Has been in command of H.M.S. "Glory" detachment from the 4th June, 1918, which consists of a large party for landing in emergency. Captain Brown has kept his detachment in a high state of efficiency, and was landed on two occasions when assistance was asked for, one at Murmansk on the 23rd March, 1919, also at Kandalksha on the 1st April, 1919.

The Marine detachment was also continuosly called on for patrol and picket duties, in connection with the various and multitudinious duties of H.M.S. "Glory" ar Murmansk.

More such if required.

Sadsac

[simonharley]

The only Hunt on the Navy List who could have been a contemporary of Creighton's at Greenwich was Robert Gregory Maze Durrant Hunt, born in 1886. At the time of the Armistice he was a Lieutenant-Commander in command of the monitor "M.32".

Simon

[michaeldr]

At the time of the Armistice he was a Lieutenant-Commander in command of the monitor "M.32".

I wonder if, after the armistice, he transferred to another Monitor?

Several were involved in this episode

See http://www3.hants.gov.uk/m33/m33-history.htm

Or, for more detail, see The Naval Review Vol.IX Feb 1921, page 85>

regards

Michael

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Hunt, Robert Gregory Maze Durrant

Date of Birth: 26 February 1886

Rank: Commander

Date 15 September 1900

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=1

[harriottbrand]

Still searching for a Captain/Commander Hunt of HMS Glory when she was in Archangel July 1919. Does anyone have a reference or photo showing her crew at that time. My grandmother may have got the name or post wrong. She was however invited and smuggled on board to have tea with him on the 7th July, the day before her birthday. I believe she was staying in the residence of Admiral Kemp in Archangel. Her brother was Kenelm Everard Lane Creighton, at that time on the New Zealand (battle of Jutland) and this captain Hunt said he had been at college with him at Greenwich which was his excuse for inviting her to tea!

Also trying to put fact to account of a Stanislas Shaldolkas, secretary to Bolsheviks, and my grandmother refers to him as being high up in the party.

Any ideas???

[Copper6197]

Hi there Harriott

No sure whether you've seen this link, but there are some images of HMS Glory as well as some of some of the crew.

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/hms_glory_1899.htm

Can't seem to find much more on her at this time.

You may be able to find out more information on the forum associated to that site.

There is no "Google" reference to Stanislas Shaldolkas (that spelling anyway)

George

[melliget]

Harriott.

Creighton was on HMS New Zealand at Jutland but he wasn't still on that ship in July 1919. The Naval Appointments column in The Times indicates he was appointed to the Victoria and Albert, the Royal yacht, in April 1919:

The Times, Thursday, Apr 17, 1919

NAVAL APPOINTMENTS

COMMRS.- ..

K. E. L. Creighton (N.), and J. M. PIPON, to Victoria and Albert

(April 15).

In his obituary in The Times, published 28 Feb 1963, it states:

"When the royal yacht Victoria and

Albert was put into service again in April,

1919, Creighton joined her as navigator,

for three years."

Admiral Lord Jellicoe went on a tour of the Empire in HMS New Zealand from Feb 1919 to Feb 1920, so unless this tour took in Russia, it's unlikely the battlecruiser was in Archangel in July.

About the start of Creighton's career, his obituary says he "entered the Britannia as a naval cadet in 1896 and went to sea as midshipman two years later". I'm not sure if Britannia and the naval college at Greenwich were one and the same (perhaps someone can clarify). His obituary does go on to say that he was "Captain of the R.N. College, Greenwich, from 1928-29", after the event you're talking about.

If you haven't done so already, as suggested in the previous thread, it might be worth getting a copy of his service record. It won't answer your question but may provide some clues.

regards,

Martin

[melliget]

Harriott.

The training ship Britannia was at Dartmouth.

And I may have found your man. It may have been Wilfrid Ward Hunt, who attainted the rank of Captain. Here's his RN service record (he was born 26 July 1883):

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=1

The reason I think it might be him is because I found Kenelm Creighton's name in a list of examination results for Britannia (04 Aug 1898) and then found Hunt's name in a similar list for Britannia just four months later (15 Dec 1898). See attached. Creighton was one of 12 midshipmen presented to the admiral on his prize day.

In Jan 1899, W. W. Hunt (naval cadet) was posted to the Majestic. In Jan 1900, the Doris (as Midshipmen). Later, in 1911, he was Lieutenant:

The Times, Thursday, Apr 06, 1911

Lieuts.- .. W. W. Hunt,

to the HECLA, additional, for the CHEERFUL, in

command, on commissioning, to date, April 8.

Wilfrid Ward Hunt married Miss Sophy Morant, third daughter of Admiral Sir Digby and Lady Morant, 27 May 1911. He was given as the younger son of the late Mr. George Eden Hunt, of Wadenhoe, Northants.

regards,

Martin

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Britannia (Dartmouth) and the naval college at Greenwich were different entities. Britannia trained naval cadets; the naval college at Greenwich was for further education.

Scroll down for pics of Britannia http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/port...p;_harbours.htm

http://www.oldroyalnavalcollege.org/

[simonharley]

I stand by my suggestion back in September that the Hunt in question is Robert Gregory Maze Hunt - he would have been the closest contemporary of his on The Navy List and thus most likely to have studied at Greenwich with him:

 

Service Record here:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=3

Simon

[melliget]

If Kenelm Creighton's obituary is to be rellied on, he didn't go to Greenwich, at least not as a young officer. It says he was educated at Fermoy College, Ireland, entered Britannia as a cadet in 1896 and went to sea 2 years later. At the surrender of the German High Seas Fleet, he was serving as navigator of H.M.S. Queen Elizabeth and Master of the Fleet. He was the Captain of the R.N. College, Greenwich, from 1928-29, and Director of Navigation at the Admiralty in 1929-31. He retired on promotion to rear-admiral on 11 Feb 1934, at the age of 51.

Below are R. G. M. Hunt's Britannia examination results. They appeared 19 Dec 1901.

[melliget]

Have just found that Commander Wilfrid Ward Hunt was loaned to the RAN from 1919 to 1922, so that might explain why he doesn't appear in the navy lists (RN) at that time, Simon. He does appear in the RAN navy lists for those years:

http://www.navy.gov.au/Publication:Navy_List

Here's his RAN service record (he served on HMAS Brisbane and HMAS Melbourne):

http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.as...mp;I=1&SE=1

If July 1919 is definite for this event in Archangel, then Simon's finding looks more promising (W. W. Hunt was at London Depot from 10 July), even though W. W. Hunt would have been at Britannia around the same time as Creighton (R. G. M. Hunt was a couple of years later).

regards,

Martin

[simonharley]

Martin, while Creighton's obituary doesn't mention Greenwich it's fairly certain that he would have to attend to study for his Lieutenant's examinations, around the age of twenty. If my memory is right, at a certain stage of an officer's life they'd be in and out or Greenwich fairly often for courses or examinations - the three year age difference between R. G. M. D. Hunt and Creighton seems close enough to me for them to have been contemporaries.

Thank you for the link on R.A.N. Navy Lists - bookmarked!

Simon

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Has anyone looked up which officers were serving on HMS Glory in 1919 in the Navy List?

[melliget]

Are they online like the Australian ones?

[per ardua per mare per terram]

We should be so lucky!

[melliget]

A quick check of the service records of R.G.M.D. HUNT and W.W. HUNT reveals that neither seems to have served on HMS GLORY, at least not that I can make out (some writing is a little scribbled). Here's a quick summary of part of their service.

R.G.M.D. Hunt in command of M 32 (from 22 Sep 1916), then was appointed to Fox as additional for special (?) service from 9 Jun to 30 Jul, 1919. The timing of this is interesting. Could Fox have been in Russia at the time? Then in command of M 24 and Cicala (?).

W.W. Hunt seems to have been in Gibraltar early 1919, then, as mentioned before, was loaned to the RAN from Jul 1919. I notice that his ship on return to the RN was HMS GLORIOUS (could this have been the ship of the family story, I wonder?). GLORIOUS was a light cruiser during WW1 and was converted to an aircraft carrier (from 1924). However, she went into the reserve fleet in early 1919 based at Devonport, so it's doubtful she would have been gallivanting around in Russia later that year.

The hunt (!) continues...

Martin

Part of their service records attached: R.G.M.D. Hunt, followed by W.W. Hunt.

[melliget]

appointed to Fox as additional for special (?) service from 9 Jun to 30 Jul, 1919

HMS FOX was at Archangel in 1919:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Fox.jpg

Some interesting information and photos on the North Russian Expeditionary Force (1919) here:

http://www.naval-history.net/WW1z05NorthRussia.htm

I don't think it beyond the realms of possibility that R.G.M.D. Hunt, whilst on FOX in Archangel, dined with other officers on HMS GLORY when the latter ship was there.

Martin

[harriottbrand]

Many months on I am now certain that the Captain Hunt in question was Robert GMD Hunt of the M32 and that it was this ship that my grandmother had 'tea' on. Captain Hunt was with Creighton as at naval college with him and I have crossed reference this with censuses and the Navy Lists. Nice to put a real person to a diary/account. I have also found the doctor on board the "Csar', her returning ship to Newcastle and am close to pinpointing the precise date Dorothy left Murmansk. I am yet to prove her existence on the passage home as she was not a passenger as such as she had no ticket. She worked her ay home as a translator, conducting the report into a french baby's death and arranging his burial at sea for Cunard.

Thanks to all who contributed, Harriott

[Guest MollyD]

Hi Harriot,

 

I work for Endeavour Press – the UK’s leading independent digital publisher – and we are very interested in discussing the possibility of republishing Sir Creighton’s books as Kindle editions. I was curious as to whether you had any more information about him as I understand your grandmother was his sister.
Would you mind dropping me an email to molly@endeavourpress.com if you have anymore details.

 

Many thanks,

 

Molly

[Steven Broomfield]

"Sir Creighton"?

[Guest]

Captain Wilfred Ward Hunt DSO RN was my grand father. With the rank of Commander, he was seconded to the Royal Australian Navy after the Great War and served as XO in HMAS Melbourne. He skippered the Melbourne’s cutter during a remarkable rescue of the entire crew (including ship’s cat) of the 4-masted schooner Helen B. Sterling off the north island of New Zealand during a stormy night in 1922. There is quite a lot of information about the rescue on the internet, and a whole chapter devoted to it in the book HMAS Melbourne.