SFayers Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Hi folks, Quick question for the heavy artillery enthusiasts on the forum. I'm aware that in early 1918 many of the Siege Batteries in the RGA were increased in strength from 4 guns to 6 (and thus from 2 sections to 3). I wonder if anyone could tell me where the extra guns, equipment and personnel came from? Were these sourced from 'new arrivals' at base depots and Army Pools or were certain existing batteries broken-up and amalgamated with others? Kind regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Hello Steve The short answer is that many new batteries formed in 1917, with numbers in the 400s and 500s, were simply broken in half and sent two guns and their detachments etc to each of two older batteries. If you have access to a copy of Lineage Book of the British Armed Forces by J B M Frederick, he gives all the details in a long series of footnotes to the lists of Heavy and Siege Batteries. If not, and you are interested in particular batteries, post the numbers and I'll look them up for you. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFayers Posted 26 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Hi Ron, Many thanks for your feedback. Yet again my interest is in 5 Siege Battery. The battery was made up from 4 to 6 guns in February 1918. The 46 Brigade RGA war diary for 21st February notes the arrival of two sections destined for 4 and 5 Siege Batteries, but does not mention where these sections came from (and 5 S Bty war diary for 1918 is not in the NA collection) - so if you can provide me with any clues I'd really be most appreciative! Best regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Hello Steve Yes, 4 and 5 SBs were made up in Feb 1918 from the two halves of 453 SB, which had been formed at Deepcut from elements of Hampshire RGA )TF). Information from the Frederick book. If only they were all that easy! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFayers Posted 27 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 27 October , 2009 Hi Ron, That's excellent! Thanks ever so much for the look-up, very much appreciated! Best regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gill Dowling Posted 5 November , 2009 Share Posted 5 November , 2009 Ron, You kindly answered a question regarding siege and heavy batteries. My great uncle was in 264 Siege Battery RGA and died of wounds at Etaples, May 15th 1918. His service no was 155370. I',m drawing blanks everywhere i turn - don't suppose you could look up where his battery was at that time could you. I want to both visit his grave and where he was wounded next spring/summer to pay my respects. Most grateful if you ( or anyone else!) could help. Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 6 November , 2009 Share Posted 6 November , 2009 Chums, So far as I can establish , only brigaded batteries were made up to 6 guns. Independant or mobile batteries reamained at 4 guns. Gill, Etaples and the immediate area was where some of the major base hospitals were established, he would have died in hospital no doubt. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 6 November , 2009 Share Posted 6 November , 2009 Hello Roop Yes, the unbrigaded 6-inch gun batteries stayed at four guns, and even the brigaded batteries were not all increased to six, especially the 9.2-inch howitzers. Unbrigaded guns of higher calibres, including all the railway guns, stayed at two guns or, in the case of the 15-inch howitzers, one. Hello Gill If your great-uncle died of wounds in mid-May, he is likely to have been wounded in one of the two great German Spring offensives: on the Somme in March and on the Lys (the Franco-Belgian border) in April, and probably the latter. 264 SB, a six-inch howitzer battery, was part of 52 Brigade RGA and took part in opposing both these offensives. If you can get to Kew, the War Diary can be found in the following file: WO 95/544 52 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 June - 1919 Nov. There is no separate battery diary for that period (this is usually the case for 1918) and it will be difficult, if not impossible, to pin down exactly where he was wounded but the diary will tell you where the batteries were on each day, and will indicate when they were under particularly heavy fire. Good hunting! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essdee Posted 8 November , 2009 Share Posted 8 November , 2009 Gill As Ron has indicated there is a Brigade diary covering this period. However, 264 Siege were attached temporarily to 42 Brigade RGA which was part of XIII Corps HA, 1st Army. Unfortunately, Kew doesn't list a diary for 42 Brigade RGA so 52 Brigade is the only chance of some detail on 264 Siege. This may be a bit sparse as they had no tactical control of 264 at this stage. The only detail the HA Commander gives is "10/11th enemy active with gas on HA positions " . His death on the 15th is consistent with many gas cases. The HA Commanders' HQ was east of Bethune, how far east is not clear, with the 42nd Brigade RGA covering the 4th Division front which was the left hand Division of the XIII Corps front. If I had to guess I'd say they were on the northern edge of this Division front as attached batteries tended to be attached for tactical purposes from their original Brigade position. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgibbs Posted 8 November , 2009 Share Posted 8 November , 2009 I was interested in the info that the very high number seried of batteries in the late war era were newly formed after 1917. My twice-great uncle is stated as serving with 504th Siege Battery on the CWGC site, and I wondered how I could find out where they were during the last couple of months of the war. He died 17th October 1918 less than a month before the coming of peace. I cannot seem to find any records in the new release of docs on Ancestry. Regards Matt Gibbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essdee Posted 9 November , 2009 Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Matt 504 Siege battery was raised at Prees Heath 21 Sept’17. This battery was slightly odd in that it was comprised of 4 x 6” Guns and 2 x 9.2” Howitzers. The four 6” Guns. went out to F&F on 15th Feb’18 with the section of 9.2” Hows going on 8th Mar’18 to be absorbed into 69 Siege battery. There is no Battery Diary listed at Kew for 504 Siege and although the battery was during the October period allocated to 73rd Army Brigade RGA, a diary for 73 Brigade is not listed either. However, the 73rd Army Brigade was allotted to 7 Corps Heavy Artillery which was acting as Corps Heavy Artillery for the 2nd American Corps during the October period. The battery was on the 19th Oct’18 situated at map ref. V28b 80.60 and it is more than probable that they were at this position on the 17th. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 9 November , 2009 Share Posted 9 November , 2009 You can find lots of information in the war diary of 73rd Brigade. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalog...;accessmethod=0 They were armed with Mk XIX 6" guns. Order from September onwards, its a good read. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essdee Posted 9 November , 2009 Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Gill A Brigade diary for 42 Brigade RGA is available from Kew under the following ref WO 95/223 42 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 Mar. - 1919 Feb. Matt Ditto above regarding 73 Brigade WO 95/476 73 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 Oct. - 1919 Oct. It appears the NA site was on the fritz yesterday whilst doing searches, returning some results and not others. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gill Dowling Posted 9 November , 2009 Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Gill A Brigade diary for 42 Brigade RGA is available from Kew under the following ref WO 95/223 42 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 Mar. - 1919 Feb. Matt Ditto above regarding 73 Brigade WO 95/476 73 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 Oct. - 1919 Oct. It appears the NA site was on the fritz yesterday whilst doing searches, returning some results and not others. Stuart Stuart, Thanks very much for that - I am now going to have to definitely visit Kew before I venture to France. Am really grateful for your help. Regards Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamcaine Posted 11 November , 2009 Share Posted 11 November , 2009 Sorry to hijack a thread My GGF was in 174th Siege Battery RGA. I have the War Diary which covers Oct 1916 - June 1917. I was wondering if anyone knew their whereabouts after this? Cheers Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 11 November , 2009 Share Posted 11 November , 2009 Hello Graham 174 SB was part of 79 Mixed Brigade RGA throughout 1918 and probably for most of the second half of 1917 *my notes are incomplete). Its War Diary at Kew is as follows: WO 95/477 79 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 Dec. - 1919 July WO 95/477 174 Siege Battery Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 Oct. - 1917 June (which you already have). After a date in late 1917, when battery allocatioons to brigades became more permanent, individual battery diaries tended not to be kept. Good luck! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamcaine Posted 11 November , 2009 Share Posted 11 November , 2009 Hello Graham 174 SB was part of 79 Mixed Brigade RGA throughout 1918 and probably for most of the second half of 1917 *my notes are incomplete). Its War Diary at Kew is as follows: WO 95/477 79 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 Dec. - 1919 July WO 95/477 174 Siege Battery Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 Oct. - 1917 June (which you already have). After a date in late 1917, when battery allocatioons to brigades became more permanent, individual battery diaries tended not to be kept. Good luck! Ron Thanks Ron, On the covering sheet of the War Diary I have it says 'Non Divisional Troops' in typed letter which has been scored out and changed to '79 BDF'. I suspected they may have been re-assigned. I will order the other War Diary. Do you know if I can order it just from June 1917 onwards or do I have to get the whole thing? Presumably a Brigade War Diary would be less specific about a Battery than an individual Battery diary? Thanks for your help. Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essdee Posted 11 November , 2009 Share Posted 11 November , 2009 Graham From the 22 Jun'17 to 18 Dec'17 174 were allocated to 46 HAG, a diary for which is available under the following ref: WO 95/543 46 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 June - 1918 Dec. They then transfer to 79 HAG, are Brigaded, and remain with this Brigade until Nov'18 apart from a month in Feb'18 where they are within 72 Brigade. The diary for 72 Brigade is under ref: WO 95/323 72 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 Nov. - 1919 Feb. ( 28 Jan to 26 Feb'18 only ) Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ororkep Posted 11 November , 2009 Share Posted 11 November , 2009 Graham, can I politely ask what you hold that says your man was with 174 Sge Bty? And are we talking about Robert Hamilton? Rgds Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamcaine Posted 11 November , 2009 Share Posted 11 November , 2009 Graham From the 22 Jun'17 to 18 Dec'17 174 were allocated to 46 HAG, a diary for which is available under the following ref: WO 95/543 46 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 June - 1918 Dec. They then transfer to 79 HAG, are Brigaded, and remain with this Brigade until Nov'18 apart from a month in Feb'18 where they are within 72 Brigade. The diary for 72 Brigade is under ref: WO 95/323 72 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 Nov. - 1919 Feb. ( 28 Jan to 26 Feb'18 only ) Stuart Hi Stuart, Thanks for the reply, and the detailed summary. So that War Diaries and dates I need are as follows..... WO 95/543 46 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 June - 1918 Dec. (22/06/17 - 18/12/1917) WO 95/477 79 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 Dec. - 1919 July (18/12/17-28/01/18) WO 95/323 72 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 Nov. - 1919 Feb. (28/01/18 - 26/02/18) WO 95/477 79 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1916 Dec. - 1919 July (26/02/18-Nov 1918) Much obliged Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 11 November , 2009 Share Posted 11 November , 2009 Graham, If you are still researching 73089 John Boyle then the period you should be concentrating on is his second period in France when he joined 174th Siege Battery, having arrived with 439th Sge. Bty., from 16th September 1917. His first period in France was with the 67th Sge. Bty. I may be wrong but I get the impression you think he was only with the 174th Sge Bty. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamcaine Posted 11 November , 2009 Share Posted 11 November , 2009 Graham, If you are still researching 73089 John Boyle then the period you should be concentrating on is his second period in France when he joined 174th Siege Battery, having arrived with 439th Sge. Bty., from 16th September 1917. His first period in France was with the 67th Sge. Bty. I may be wrong but I get the impression you think he was only with the 174th Sge Bty. Kevin Hi Kevin, My great grandfather was Gunner Robert Hamilton of 174th SB RGA and survived the Great War. It's him that I'm trying to research predominantly (as well as my wifes great uncle Private John Burns of 5th South Staffordshire, died 01/07/16 at Gommecourt). I posted about John Boyle as I thought he might have served with Robert in the same battery, and the details about where he was buried might lend a clue as to the batterys whereabouts,etc. This was before I discovered War Diaries! If anyone knows where I might find any further information (i.e. books, websites) on 174th SB RGA I would be interested to know. Or 5th South Staffords for that matter. Cheers Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ororkep Posted 11 November , 2009 Share Posted 11 November , 2009 Graham, the reason I ask is that I have him somewhere else, so Im just curious what you have that CONFIRMS he was in 174 SB? Rgds Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamcaine Posted 11 November , 2009 Share Posted 11 November , 2009 Graham, Well I have him somewhere else, so Im just curious what you have that CONFIRMS he was in 174 SB? Rgds Paul Hi paul Really? Thats interesting. I have his original Discharge papers which states 174th SB RGA. I took that as gospel. I will post them up if I can find them. Where do you have him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamcaine Posted 11 November , 2009 Share Posted 11 November , 2009 Graham, can I politely ask what you hold that says your man was with 174 Sge Bty? And are we talking about Robert Hamilton? Rgds Paul Hi Paul Sorry didn't see this post before. Just tried to put a document on the post but it's too big (it's a scan). I will summarise. It's a Certificate of (Transfer to Reserve) on Demobilisation dated 14/10/19 Transferred to Reserve: 17/01/16 Called Up: 07/06/16 Gives his number: 95604 and Unit: 174 SB RGA. Are you saying he was with another battery before he joined 174 SB RGA? Any help greatfully received as I am a novice! Cheers Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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