Hywyn Posted 4 December , 2009 Share Posted 4 December , 2009 As regards to vivid descriptions of deaths in newspapers etc I think that it was widespread to provide gruesome deatils in those days. I have gathered quite a a lot of accounts of fatalities in slate quarries. Quite a lot were of men blown up when there was premature ignition of the explosives in the quarry face. Others were of crush injuries and decapitations and severing of limbs. The details did not leave a lot to the imagination. That depth of reporting is happily now very rare. Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarylW Posted 5 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 5 December , 2009 Can't remember reading a condolence letter sent by an officer that was censored, although I've read a lot of other letters written by OR's that were Why would this letter in particular have been censored? Sent some time after the battle(s) in the woods mentioned, the Germans would have been aware of these positions surely so why blank them out? an over zealous censor, or was this the norm? This was written to the widow of a Birkenhead man (20th Bn KLR) by a Lieutenant, his company commander, also a Birkenhead man, who lost his own life three months later " Your husband, I regret to inform you, was killed on July 3oth. He was found and buried by the Divisional Salvage company, just south of ( Censored ) Wood, near ( Censored ). I received official information of this yesterday. You have my heartfelt sympathy, as I was fond of Atherton, and this splendid soldier always did his duty well" Caryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted 5 December , 2009 Share Posted 5 December , 2009 Interesting comment there Caryl. I can not close a thred! Do you still have mods priveleges? It makes me wonder how many other people may also have mods rights . Mods rights can allow access to info which should only be available to the higher ranks of mods mods. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarylW Posted 5 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 5 December , 2009 Interesting comment there Caryl. I can not close a thred! Do you still have mods priveleges? It makes me wonder how many other people may also have mods rights . Mods rights can allow access to info which should only be available to the higher ranks of mods mods. Alan Alan, no I don't have Mods privileges, or any other special privileges or rights, never have nor would I want them on here. Any member who starts a topic has the power to close their own topic. Apparently I'm assuming that all members have this power(?) If you start a topic, look right at the bottom of the page, there is an option "moderation options" menu which when clicked brings up the option to "close this topic" click "go" button and it closes the topic which you could always re-open Caryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted 6 December , 2009 Share Posted 6 December , 2009 No I don't have a moderation options button on the threads I started. Only those with mods priveleges do I imagine. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCurragh Posted 7 December , 2009 Share Posted 7 December , 2009 No I don't have a moderation options button on the threads I started. Only those with mods priveleges do I imagine. Alan Alan (Ghost) - I can assure you that only 6 people have moderator's privileges, the moderators. Please stop suggesting that Caryl does. And to reiterate the point made above, a mod did not close the thread, Caryl did - I then asked that it be reopened. I thought that forum members could close their own threads - I'll check the permissions for this. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rundberg Posted 7 December , 2009 Share Posted 7 December , 2009 I think the original idea behind this thread was very interesting and although I must admit that I haven´t much to contribute with personally I would very much appreciate if there are members that would like to carry on as originally intended. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 7 December , 2009 Share Posted 7 December , 2009 Hear hear Chris. Caryl began an interesting topic. Quite how or why it descended into wild accusations is a mystery. To repeat, Caryl has exactly the same priveleges as everyone else in her group. Alan aka Ghost actually has one additional access right by virtue of being in the Old Sweats group, and thus is permitted to post in Skindles. Otherwise, your premissions are exactly the same as Caryl's. As a reminder, the topic title is Letters home to the next of kin of the fallen, A kindness to strangers Now let's talk about that please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarylW Posted 7 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 7 December , 2009 Thanks. Was beginning to lose the will to live! Despite everything, some interesting discussions and letters posted and I would still wouldn't mind knowing why that particular letter in my post #27 would have been censored? Caryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted 8 December , 2009 Share Posted 8 December , 2009 I have thousands of war letters from many nationalities, but there is a true contrast in the manner, attentiveness, and detail that comes across from different nations. The Germans were truly amazing to the degree with which they would contact the family of a casualty. Often not only friends, but the company commander, and battalion commander, would send handwritten letters with photos of the grave, and details of death, made all the more amazing by the fact that these were often done in the middle of ongoing heavy action. I've seen this even with men who had just joined the unit. The Brits seem to have been fairly responsive, but the Americans were often with no contact at all beyond the basic form letters. In fact, often families would have to go through anguishing letter writing campaigns, searches, and forced interventions by politicians or prominent aquaintences to chase down even the most basic information as to the circumstances of the casualty. Most probably talked about before on here but we are allowed to discuss things again (before anyone throws that old turkey "this has been discussed before, yawn" at me!) Always strikes me what a difficult job it must have been for officers to write letters home to the next of kin of the fallen men in their units. The officers, mostly only young men themselves having most probably lived through the hellish battles themselves and maybe suffering from what we would today recognise as 'Post traumatic shock' having to sit down and write letters, possibly many of them if losses were heavy, and struggle to find some small crumb of comfort for the family members back home. I know it was part of their job, they just knuckled down to it and many just wrote the standard "he fought bravely to the end" which would in itself be comforting and may not be of course, in some cases, entirely true. The kindness and humanity of many of them, where the officer has tried to find bravery in the last action of the fallen man just shines through and of course many of them went on to lose their own lives One I read recently written home by a Lieutenant 255th Bde Royal Field Artillery to a widow : ...On the day in question, he was holding mine and another officer's horse, when a shell burst, killing himelf and the horses. Beyond having thus given his life for his king and county, he was the means of saving the lives of eighteen men who were in a group behind, and would have all been killed but for his bearing the brunt of the burst Possibly some truth, would he have saved so many lives by taking the brunt of this? who knows but of some comfort to a grieving widow maybe I'm sure there are many more examples of this kind of humanity and kindness Caryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wig Posted 8 December , 2009 Share Posted 8 December , 2009 heres a tale of a poignant letter> http://www.freewebs.com/ireland1418/irishonthesomme.htm wig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarylW Posted 8 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 8 December , 2009 Wig One of the most poignant condolence letters from the front that I have ever read and a fine example of "A kindness to strangers" Thanks for posting this Jesse, thanks for that observation. I hadn't even thought of the possibility of any cultural differences in this subject Caryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted 9 December , 2009 Share Posted 9 December , 2009 One of the great commonalities of these letters is the writer's attempts to emphasize the quick and or painless death of the soldier in question. Even if the man was taken to hospital, the lack of any suffering was usually emphasized. Most probably talked about before on here but we are allowed to discuss things again (before anyone throws that old turkey "this has been discussed before, yawn" at me!) Always strikes me what a difficult job it must have been for officers to write letters home to the next of kin of the fallen men in their units. The officers, mostly only young men themselves having most probably lived through the hellish battles themselves and maybe suffering from what we would today recognise as 'Post traumatic shock' having to sit down and write letters, possibly many of them if losses were heavy, and struggle to find some small crumb of comfort for the family members back home. I know it was part of their job, they just knuckled down to it and many just wrote the standard "he fought bravely to the end" which would in itself be comforting and may not be of course, in some cases, entirely true. The kindness and humanity of many of them, where the officer has tried to find bravery in the last action of the fallen man just shines through and of course many of them went on to lose their own lives One I read recently written home by a Lieutenant 255th Bde Royal Field Artillery to a widow : ...On the day in question, he was holding mine and another officer's horse, when a shell burst, killing himelf and the horses. Beyond having thus given his life for his king and county, he was the means of saving the lives of eighteen men who were in a group behind, and would have all been killed but for his bearing the brunt of the burst Possibly some truth, would he have saved so many lives by taking the brunt of this? who knows but of some comfort to a grieving widow maybe I'm sure there are many more examples of this kind of humanity and kindness Caryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassoon Posted 9 December , 2009 Share Posted 9 December , 2009 My Grandmother received a letter in fairly good English from a German doctor in the hospital my Grandfather died in. It detailed his wound and the results and explained what had happened to the contents of his pockets. Mainly distributed to other patients but some returned, photos, letters and his pipe. I wonder, was this common? Did German doctors or any sort of German military official (I assume the doctors were army doctors in Germany?) send letters such as this to deceased family members of enemy soldiers? I find it fascinating that the man would have done this...not because he was incapable of such kindness, but because of the climate during the War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarylW Posted 9 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 December , 2009 I wonder, was this common? Did German doctors or any sort of German military official (I assume the doctors were army doctors in Germany?) send letters such as this to deceased family members of enemy soldiers? I find it fascinating that the man would have done this...not because he was incapable of such kindness, but because of the climate during the War. It was fascinating and I wonder if it was common and has anything to do with Jesse's observations in post #35 ".........there is a true contrast in the manner, attentiveness, and detail that comes across from different nations. The Germans were truly amazing to the degree with which they would contact the family of a casualty Did it happen much from the allied side with doctors or officials of other nationalities writing condolence letters to the family of "enemy" soldiers? Caryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassoon Posted 10 December , 2009 Share Posted 10 December , 2009 It was fascinating and I wonder if it was common and has anything to do with Jesse's observations in post #35 ".........there is a true contrast in the manner, attentiveness, and detail that comes across from different nations. The Germans were truly amazing to the degree with which they would contact the family of a casualty Did it happen much from the allied side with doctors or officials of other nationalities writing condolence letters to the family of "enemy" soldiers? Caryl That's a great question, Caryl. One has to wonder how much the courtesy and kindness was returned by the Allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rundberg Posted 10 December , 2009 Share Posted 10 December , 2009 That's a great question, Caryl. One has to wonder how much the courtesy and kindness was returned by the Allies. Was there any standing orders etc from the head quarters about how to handle matters like this? I suppose they had to transfer letters like that via the Red Cross? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 10 December , 2009 Share Posted 10 December , 2009 Haha Wig. You took me on an enjoyable journey around the internet which led safely back here. Shame the good Samaritan has never been definitely tracked down. IPT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted 10 December , 2009 Share Posted 10 December , 2009 Next to the basic telegram or form letter notification, the most basic written contact seems to have been the responsibility of the company or battery commander (kompanie-chef, batterie-chef). Sometimes the platoon commander (zug-kdr) would write as well. It seems rare for letters to have come from those who were right with the deceased at the time of death. Another sad aspect is to read the letters sent by, and returned to, a loved one who is growing ever more anxious at not having heard from their soldier. Sometimes these can go for weeks. Most probably talked about before on here but we are allowed to discuss things again (before anyone throws that old turkey "this has been discussed before, yawn" at me!) Always strikes me what a difficult job it must have been for officers to write letters home to the next of kin of the fallen men in their units. The officers, mostly only young men themselves having most probably lived through the hellish battles themselves and maybe suffering from what we would today recognise as 'Post traumatic shock' having to sit down and write letters, possibly many of them if losses were heavy, and struggle to find some small crumb of comfort for the family members back home. I know it was part of their job, they just knuckled down to it and many just wrote the standard "he fought bravely to the end" which would in itself be comforting and may not be of course, in some cases, entirely true. The kindness and humanity of many of them, where the officer has tried to find bravery in the last action of the fallen man just shines through and of course many of them went on to lose their own lives One I read recently written home by a Lieutenant 255th Bde Royal Field Artillery to a widow : ...On the day in question, he was holding mine and another officer's horse, when a shell burst, killing himelf and the horses. Beyond having thus given his life for his king and county, he was the means of saving the lives of eighteen men who were in a group behind, and would have all been killed but for his bearing the brunt of the burst Possibly some truth, would he have saved so many lives by taking the brunt of this? who knows but of some comfort to a grieving widow maybe I'm sure there are many more examples of this kind of humanity and kindness Caryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wig Posted 10 December , 2009 Share Posted 10 December , 2009 Haha Wig. You took me on an enjoyable journey around the internet which led safely back here. Shame the good Samaritan has never been definitely tracked down. IPT There is another small aspect to the Private Coleman letter/story. When Private Wiles took the rubble from the destroyed church to bury Christopher Coleman, he did'nt know, and nor did I until I visited the restored church, that it was the church of Saint Christopher! wig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 10 December , 2009 Share Posted 10 December , 2009 There is another small aspect to the Private Coleman letter/story. When Private Wiles took the rubble from the destroyed church to bury Christopher Coleman, he did'nt know, and nor did I until I visited the restored church, that it was the church of Saint Christopher! wig Nice touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nthornton1979 Posted 11 August , 2010 Share Posted 11 August , 2010 Just going through some old threads (on a busy nightshift in work ) Whilst reading through this again I wondered if any next of kin ever recieved conflicting letters ? ie A letter stating he died instantly followed by another from someone else stating different circumstances - He was hit and died several hours after been wounded etc.... Officers wrote letters to NOK but many OR's also wrote letters and I bet they didn't cross reference them before sending. I'd imagine this did happen from time to time. Has anyone ever come across this ? Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nthornton1979 Posted 14 July , 2011 Share Posted 14 July , 2011 Jus treading through some old threads (yep, another nightshift) and thought this one ties in here aswell. http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=151192&st=0&p=1454980&fromsearch=1entry1454980 Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seany Posted 14 July , 2011 Share Posted 14 July , 2011 Perhaps not the kindest example but interesting, a chap I'm currently researching killed by artillery burst and the family were told details through perhaps an unusual route - the man in question had been electoral agent for the local MP and whilst aware that he had been killed the family did not know details. The MP told them he had experienced a chest injury and his left arm had been blown off - perhaps the most upsetting part was that he had taken his little girls watch to wear and it had not been returned with his property - now they knew in somewhat graphic detail why. It seems an unusual route for such info and the MP must have specifically gone to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 15 July , 2011 Share Posted 15 July , 2011 Seany Can you please give us a bit more information? Who the MP was, for example; when it happened; and which regiment was involved? Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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