CGM Posted 22 December , 2009 Share Posted 22 December , 2009 I was browsing through this book in a second hand bookshop today. I've done a search and found lots of references to it, but no reviews (and no e-book version, as far as I could see). Has anyone any comments on this book? It's an area of the war I haven't considered at all, so far. Regards CGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 22 December , 2009 Share Posted 22 December , 2009 Sorry CGM, I can not comment on this book but I can recommend 'Memories of four fronts' by Sir William Marshall. He was a Corps commander out there and took over as theatre commander after Gen. Maude died. A gentle ramble of his army career from battalion commander in 1914 to theatre commander by 1918. No mean feat! Alternatively if you wait a little while Alan Wakefield and Simon Moody will hopefully have their book out on the campaign. Regards Arm here is a 1930 review of it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 22 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 22 December , 2009 Thank you Arm. The review was well worth reading, and it looks a very good book. I want to move away from France and Flanders (where my grandad fought) and start looking at the wider war. Regards CGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Wilson Posted 22 December , 2009 Share Posted 22 December , 2009 I was browsing through this book in a second hand bookshop today. I've done a search and found lots of references to it, but no reviews (and no e-book version, as far as I could see). Has anyone any comments on this book? It's an area of the war I haven't considered at all, so far. Regards CGM My copy of Townsend's 'My Campaign in Mesopotamia' published in 1920 has been on the shelf these past twenty years, alongside Edmund Candler's book in two volumes 'The Long Road to Baghdad'. Townsend had plenty of time to reflect on his Campaign in Mespot following the fall of Kut-Al-Amara on 26th April 1916 till his release from captivity on 17th October 1918 when he then went to the British Fleet with a promise that the Turks would open the Dardanelles. In his preface Townsend makes the point that as prisoner of war he had the satisfaction of bringing about what he had failed to do in the field - he induced the Turks to surrender, thereby shortening the War in Europe by several months. Following the Turkish surrender, Austria surrended and then in turn Germany followed suit. Townsend believed that no one, either soldier or civilian can judge military operations unless they have a sound knowledge of the six great Fundemental Principles of War as established by Napoleon. Chapter 1 covers these principles including those of Clausewitz and the great Moltke. Thereafter the book is effectively in five parts: Part 1 - Kurna - occupation of Basra and Southern Mesopot, preperations for the advance to Kurna, The Battle of Kurna and the pursuit and occupation of Amarah. With supporting Appendix. Part 2 - Kut - the advance from Amarah against Kut-Al-Amara and subsequent Battle at Kut. With supporting Appendix. Part 3 - Ctesiphon - preperations for the advance on Baghdad, advance to Ctesiphon , subsequent Battle of Ctesiphon and the retirement to Kut. With supporting Appendix. Part 4 -The Seige of Kut - Defence of Kut first phase, First attempts at relief, further relief attempst, Defence of Kut phases two and three, the attack on El Hannah, the Surrender of Kut. With supporting Appendix. Part 5 - Constantinople - A Prisoner of War, The Armistice with Turkey, Conclusion. A useful Index mainly Places, People, Units and Events. The book contains 15 supporting maps - seven within the body of the text. Its a worthy record of the achievements of the 6th Division much of which may well have been written whilst Townsend was in captivity. Well worth reading although Townsend makes the point in the preface that those not interested in military tactics will begin at Chapter 2. Although he hoped many would read Chapter 1 - 'for these principles form the so-called German Doctrine, which was applied to the Army and the diplomacy of that highly efficient people.' Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 22 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 22 December , 2009 Thank you for such a detailed reply, Philip. There's obviously a great deal of information in the book and I'm actually particularly taken with chapter 1 too, as military tactics are also a new area of study for me. (Incidentally, next to this book was vol II of Edmund Candler's The Long Road to Bagdad. Sadly no volume I.) Thank you again for your help, Regards CGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonM Posted 26 December , 2009 Share Posted 26 December , 2009 Hi to everyone from sunny NZ, Townshend's book is revealing in a number of other ways. It must be treated with a severe degree of caution. He was absolutely livid (in a typically egotistical way) that after the Great War he was passed over by many younger officers (many of whome were clearly more talented, having learned their craft in the more intense school of the Western Front and risen throught the ranks). His own views of self vindication, and military lineage (his ancestors were illustrious soldiers (including one Field Marshal) make the book a response to this feeling of self-vindication. Some other personal writings also suport this view (which I have included in our book - in final preparation). You won't find a huge number of quotes used from it for that reason. Thus, we have to bear in mind that Towwnshend had an axe to grind, so bear it in mind! Marshall's account is probably more reliable. All the best Simon Moody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonM Posted 26 December , 2009 Share Posted 26 December , 2009 PS THe clue is in the title and preface 'MY Campaign in Mesopotamia' (presumably the 12 Div under Gorringe and Tigris Corps were less important?) and how HE induced the Turks the to surrender. I think there is a strong argument that Townshend may have been delusional to the last. Anyway, still a good read as long as we remember the man writing it had a lot to answer for. Anyway, happy New Year everyone! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Wilson Posted 26 December , 2009 Share Posted 26 December , 2009 PS THe clue is in the title and preface 'MY Campaign in Mesopotamia' (presumably the 12 Div under Gorringe and Tigris Corps were less important?) and how HE induced the Turks the to surrender. I think there is a strong argument that Townshend may have been delusional to the last. Anyway, still a good read as long as we remember the man writing it had a lot to answer for. Anyway, happy New Year everyone! Simon Simon I agree with you - Townsend's book is very much written in the first person with great use of the word I. He rarely uses the word We. It needs to be read alongside other accounts, for example there is a useful chapter covering military operations in Iraq 1914-16 in 'The Indian Sappers and Miners' by Lieut-Colonel E.W.C Sandes published by the Institute of Royal Engineers in 1948. Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 27 December , 2009 Share Posted 27 December , 2009 I have not studied the Mespot campaign in detail, and all I know of Townshend is that he was later execrated for spending his captivity in comparative luxury while his surviving troops suffered neglect and ill-treatment at the hands of their captors. Equally, though, I've never supposed that he had much influence on his own treatment, or necessarily knew about the conditions other prisoners were kept in. Lesser officers were routinely interviewed on return from captivity about the circumstances of their capture/surrender, and I imagine Townshend was questioned much more closely than most, but he does not appear to have been officially disciplined or criticised immediately after the war. Nevertheless, his reputation evidently collapsed in the years following, as the 'media' of the day exposed details of the circumstances of his own captivity. Comparisons with later mass surrenders, and their aftermaths - Percival in Singapore and Paulus at Stalingrad come to mind - are perhaps odious, but in a less sentimental and more analytical light, at a remove of 90+ years, is there any chance of the popular view of Townshend being revised ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 27 December , 2009 Share Posted 27 December , 2009 Mick, there was a thread on that very topic, IIRC. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonM Posted 27 December , 2009 Share Posted 27 December , 2009 Hi Siege, Yes, indeed Townshend was placed under the spotlight in post-war GB. However, it is pretty clear that he blundered very badly in a number of areas (particularly durng the siege of Kut itself). In many respects his position and family reputation sved him from a great deal of futher scrutiny. Sandes's book is indeed very useful -after all, he is one of the best sources for the siege and the pow experience for officers. I am not sure (as Robert alluded to previous threads) that any exonoration is possible with CVFT. He was a man of his time and of his class/culture - a shame for the common soldier who still revered him even in the 20s - an interesting dilemma - there must have been something inspiring about him. Will the real Townshend please stand up? Sources vary however, some say that during Kut he was there always urging the chaps on - others suggest he was invisible and remote! shall we take our choice? Will we ever know (given that Mespot sources are lees in number than Western Front - its one Division at Kut! Such is history! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John(txic) Posted 27 December , 2009 Share Posted 27 December , 2009 Just out of interest, CGM - how much was it going for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 28 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 28 December , 2009 What an interesting discussion. I'm sorry I've only just caught up with this. (Have been away at two different relatives, both of whom are still on dial-up, and pretty poor service they get too.) Thank you, everyone, for your comments. There's a lot to think about there. The prices of the two books I mentioned are £30 for Townsend's My Campaign in Mesopotamia, and vol II of Candler's The Long Road to Bagdad is £40. I did speak to the lady behind the counter, about how unfortunate it was that vol I of The Long Road to Bagdad is missing , but the only interest she showed was to quickly ask if I thought their copy of vol II was underpriced. (I have no idea why anyone would ask a potential customer a question like that!) Regards CGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonharley Posted 28 December , 2009 Share Posted 28 December , 2009 Why spend money on the Candler when you can read it for free: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=ca...r%20long%20road Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonsstar Posted 28 December , 2009 Share Posted 28 December , 2009 This is a pic of the house Gen Townshend's was living in, after siege of Kut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonsstar Posted 28 December , 2009 Share Posted 28 December , 2009 Also have a look here: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...howtopic=139428 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mosamie Posted 3 July , 2010 Share Posted 3 July , 2010 Hi All, Was interested in reading what you blokes had to say about Major-General Townsend. Though i see he was greatful in being thankful to my great great grandfather from an extract of a letter sent to Major Hill. Extract of letter from Major Townsend, D.S.O., Jhelum :- This is to certify that Captain Mihr Din of Dhoria assisted me in recruiting for labour corps for service in Gallipoli and Mesopotamia in 1915. With his assistance I enrolled over 800 men. His record of service shows a very distinguished career. 31-8-1920 E.F.J., Hill, Lieut.-Colonel, Commandant 1st K.G.O., S. & M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 5 July , 2010 Share Posted 5 July , 2010 First of all Paulus was not a VON! As for Townsend having read "MY Campaign..." and a number of other books on Mespotone can say the following: Townsend did have a ego problem but was a good general. Looking at his handeling of his force before the siege of Kut he showed real ability. If someone like him had been in command say at the Tanga or Sulva Bay on the British side in WW I they would have been victories not defeats. As for Kut Townsend was ordered to defend the town, refused permission to retreat, refused permission to break out, and failure to relieve Kut was do to the almost bottomless incompetance of other Generals. No doubt given the right circumstances Townsend probably could gone down in history as one of the better generals in the British Army of WW I but things went wrong and he became famous for the wrong reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 6 July , 2010 Share Posted 6 July , 2010 First of all Paulus was not a VON! Indeed - and I have corrected my post accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.singha Posted 28 July , 2015 Share Posted 28 July , 2015 This is late in the day but I came across this post and wondered if the writer has some more information on the recruitment of this Punjab Labour Corps from Rawalpindi. It was destined for Gallipoli but never went there, being diverted to Mesopotamia instead. Secondly, Candler was critiqued for saying somewhere that the Turks had treated prisoners of war well. Does anyone have the exact reference? all the best R.Singha Posted 03 July 2010 - 10:29 PM Hi All,Was interested in reading what you blokes had to say about Major-General Townsend. Though i see he was greatful in being thankful to my great great grandfather from an extract of a letter sent to Major Hill.Extract of letter from Major Townsend, D.S.O., Jhelum :-This is to certify that Captain Mihr Din of Dhoria assisted me in recruiting for labour corps for service in Gallipoli and Mesopotamia in 1915. With his assistance I enrolled over 800 men. His record of service shows a very distinguished career.31-8-1920 E.F.J., Hill,Lieut.-Colonel,Commandant 1st K.G.O., S. & M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 28 July , 2015 Share Posted 28 July , 2015 The United Service Institution of India will be publishing a book called the Indian Labour Corps in the Great War. Perhaps this will contain the information you are looking for. The author may be interested in the letter you have. http://indiaww1.in/ourpublication.aspx Secondly, you can read Candler online: The Long Road to Baghdad by Edmund Candler 1919 Archive.org Volume I, Volume II Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancashire Posted 28 July , 2015 Share Posted 28 July , 2015 Maureen, Hazel Thanks for this, I have glanced through it, overall the contents do Townsend no favours each day as I read more I can add to the smoking gun concept as to why he fell from favour and eventual disgrace. We have a debate on-going (late July 2015) under the topic- siege ok Kut 1916 as to whether he deserved it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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