The Marne 1914 -by Holger H Herwig

[MJohnson]

Just finished this book ; one of my Christmas presents ,andfound it hard to put down . Has anyone else had a copy?

[truthergw]

Yes, I read it just before the holiday season. A valuable addition to the book shelf but slightly disappointing. I thought the title was misleading. It dealt at great length on origins of the war, and Battles of the Frontiers before finally dealing with the 1st Battle of the Marne. I thought that Professor Herwig displayed a common North American trait. There are nuances and subtleties to the European political scene which have passed him by. Nevertheless, a very good book and a good overall introduction to the start of the war.

[Michelle Young]

have a look here too Pops

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...6&hl=herwig

Michelle

[squirrel]

It's on my "to read" pile and I am looking forward to it.

[Halder]

It's very good but... not always engaging. The research behind The Marne is impressive. This is probably the most detailed overarching account of the first month of the Great War that exists. The title is a tad misleading, for the book covers the bitter opening battles along the entire Western Front, encompassing the actions of all four armies fighting in August and September 1914. For a largely academic volume, the author does not ignore the human (and inhuman) element - the horrors of battle and the 'German atrocities'.

At times the narrative becomes bogged down with the movements and manoeuvres of armies, however. Corps X, division Y, gaps and flanks which may be good for serious military historians but rather confuse the more general reader. That's not helped by the maps, some of which have reproduced rather poorly. Also the photographic selection is very limited: the only images from the actual campaign show destruction of the Liège forts and devastated Louvain; not one photograph of the actual Marne campaign!

With these reservations in mind, this is an impressive addition to our understanding of the first weeks of the 1914 campaign, but for human drama, Barbara Tuchmann's August 1914 still stands supreme after five decades.

[HVD5677]

Am reading it now and I agree that it is very valuable, but not the quickest read I have ever encountered. I have always been confused when I read descriptions of battles, positions of units, movements, etc. and always have to have a good map in front of me to make full sense of it all.

[Robert Dunlop]

I have just finished this book. The subtitle is a reminder of the scope: 'The opening of World War 1 and the battle that changed the world'. It is appropriate that Herwig covered the Battle of the Frontiers and related battles leading up to the Marne. The latter is best understand in the context of what went before.

FWIIW, I was very disappointed in Herwig's descriptions of the major decision makers. He tends to ascribe all sorts of feelings and other descriptors that reflect his personal interpretation. This style is not unique to Herwig but it distracts from a deeper understanding of how and why certain decisions were taken. Too many of his comments reflect a post hoc wise-after-the-event view. It appears that Herwig has not had experience of military command, as he rarely seems to understand the problems associated with decision-making in the fog of war. More significantly, Herwig misinterprets the very serious situation that confronted von Kluck's First Army and von Bülow's Second Army as the French and BEF went over to the attack. Having conducted a careful review of Hentsch's role (though missing some of the important evidence provided by Hentsch in response to Ludendorff's official review), Herwig underestimates the significance of the huge gap.

I raise this issue because it is a reminder that Herwig's book is not the definitive account IMHO. There is another major example of why I make this suggestion. Herwig has replayed the usual descriptions of French and German attacks, despite the growing body of evidence that these descriptions are not correct.

Sewell Tyng's book remains the best description of the Marne and the preceding weeks. Herwig has added a few insights to Tyng's book. Herwig has looked at German sources relating to air reconnaissance and communications. He has also examined the information about Joffre's reallocation of forces to the French left wing. The focus on the early battles around Mulhouse is helpful, as is the significant focus on von Hausen's Third Army. While Herwig has studied several primary sources to add these details, he frequently uses secondary sources elsewhere in the book. So Herwig's book reads like a general summary reproducing existing material, supplemented by some good innovative work in a few areas.

Tyng's book is more readable. For the serious student of the early battles, Herwig's book adds a few additional pieces of unique information. Herwig's book can be seen as a more recent substitute for someone who doesn't have either book and wants a good overview of the opening battles of WW1. But I would urge caution in regarding Herwig's interpretations as definitive.

Robert

[Crunchy]

Many thanks for the review Robert. I have been thinking of buying Herwig's book.

Having read Sewell Tyng's The Campaign of The Marne which, IMO, is one of the best military history books I have read at the strategic and operational level of war and addresses the key issues of the campaign, including the impact of the fog of war on command decisions, exceptionally well, I think I shall pass on Herwig's account and save the dollars for something else.

Cheers

Chris

[Robert Dunlop]

Very good decision, Chris. The recent publication of von Hausen's memoirs in English has been more interesting, IMHO. I have his original book, written in Fraktur. The English translation was made from a French translation. I haven't checked the accuracy yet, but so far it seems true to the original.

Interestingly, Herwig takes a snipe at Zuber's account of the Battle of the Ardennes. However, Herwig's analysis of the battles around Mulhouse pales by comparison to the details in Zuber's book.

Robert

[SteveMarsdin]

Good evening All,

I've had the book a few months now; initially I just read the chapters dealing with the Battle of the Frontiers in the specific area I'm particularly interested in but I've now taken the time to read it all.

I think most of the major points have already been covered but I would recommend that anyone interested in the First Battle of the Marne reads both Tyng's and Herwig's accounts. Both are similar in scope as both authors realise that you can't fully discuss the Marne at that level without relating it to the opening battles and the subsequent direction taken by the respective commanders, particularly their switch of forces between parts of (and away from) the Front. Whereas Tyng had the benefit of been around at the actual time and an impressive list of sources, so too does Herwig (when discussing Hensch for example) with the benefit of all that has been made available since Tyng wrote his account.

Although I thought both books well worth buying I preferred Tyng's book for two reasons: I found his style more "readable". for example I found Herwig's listing of all the unit commanders by their full names (and nicknames) initially endearing, as if he knew them personally but eventually it became irritating as I would have preferred greater detail on what happened, rather than a reference of exactly who was in charge of what. Previous commentators have bemoaned the lack of maps and I would agree, with this Battle in particular, an understanding of the geography is of extreme importance. As well as Robert's suggestion, the Michelin quides available on www.archive.org are helpful. However, a map is only as good as the references contained in the book and the several geographical and typographical errors in Herwig's book are the second reason I preferred Tyng's. For example: Herwig has the French 5th Colonial Brigade "surprised in the thick woods near Bertrix", in fact they were attacked near Neufchateau; he describes the citadel and cathedral at Dinant as been on the west bank, they're on the east bank; he described a town in Moselle as being in the Ardennes; he refers to Rossignol as Rossigny on two occasions etc

There aren't many illustrations and the only one specifically of the "Marne" is the iconic (perhaps symbolic) photo of French infantrymen disembarking from the taxis, on the cover.

Notwithstanding the shortcomings I would still recommend getting the book but only if you've already got or are also getting Tyng's book (and some good maps). Having read these two books can anyone recommend a book on the "narrower" scope of the actual battle of the Marne ?