War is War by Ex private X

[Guest Marc Open]

Hello everyone,my name is Marc and this is my first post on the Great War Forum, I have really enjoyed looking through the GWF over the last year or so and thought it was about time I signed up, a little about me is probably appropriate at this point, I have a long interest in the Great War mainly caused by my three very elderly Great Aunts who are long gone now, two of them who were spinsters, in the 70's when I asked them in a childs very insensitive way why they were never married they both replied accross the breakfast table that their boyfriends or all the men their age were killed in the War, that and their WW2 stories had me hooked and from the Victor comic for boys to owning three WW2 vehicles and about 300 or so GW and WW2 books, many of them original first or second editions from the 1920's and 1930's.

I can't walk around a GW/WW2 cemetary without crying, try and do at least one GW Battlefield walk every year and have found some almost undisturbed places over the last few years especially from the British lines in 1915......... and am off to Berlin ,Seelow Hieghts and the Oder river in June in one of the WW2 vehicles I have.

Anyway what promted me to post was the overridding fascination I have with the GW is how the Goverment/State motivated millions of British men to go of and risk death and maiming, how do you persuade a nation to throw away it's financial supremacy and what drove our political leadership to involve the British Army in what was a repeat of what happend 40 years before, when the temptation or outcome could have been Britians involvement as a Naval Power only/or sit back like the Americans have done in two wars(until late in the day)and provide munitions and support and hover up overseas wealth with their production capacity.

Having read War is War recently by Private X (London Victor Gollancz Ltd 1930) I was struck how near his attitude fitted what I thought must have been the prevailing attitude of the time among the men who were getting shot and shelled, it fitted so well that many of the other first hand accounts I had read seemed, some how lowered in my respect for their true authenticity as a reflection of the feelings of the time.

I would be really interested to hear how others on this Forum rate some of the accounts they have read and how those books reflect what the reader feels they would have felt, or indeed do they reflect how the author really felt at that time and why Britian had to be involved when the option was to grow our country in financial/production terms.

[Sapper Will]

Anyway what promted me to post was the overridding fascination I have with the GW is how the Goverment/State motivated millions of British men to go of and risk death and maiming, how do you persuade a nation to throw away it's financial supremacy and what drove our political leadership to involve the British Army in what was a repeat of what happend 40 years before, when the temptation or outcome could have been Britians involvement as a Naval Power only/or sit back like the Americans have done in two wars(until late in the day)and provide munitions and support and hover up overseas wealth with their production capacity.

Having read War is War recently by Private X (London Victor Gollancz Ltd 1930) I was struck how near his attitude fitted what I thought must have been the prevailing attitude of the time among the men who were getting shot and shelled, it fitted so well that many of the other first hand accounts I had read seemed, some how lowered in my respect for their true authenticity as a reflection of the feelings of the time.

I would be really interested to hear how others on this Forum rate some of the accounts they have read and how those books reflect what the reader feels they would have felt, or indeed do they reflect how the author really felt at that time and why Britian had to be involved when the option was to grow our country in financial/production terms.

Welcome to the forum. I think you'll be impressed, as I have been, by the knowledge and sophistication of many who frequent this site. Also, if you have't seen it yet, I strongly recommend hitting the "LLT" link in the upper left corner for a website which is just stuffed with all sorts of information on the British Army of 1914-18.

When you mention a repeat of what happened 40 years before, I'm assuming you mean the Franco-Prussian War. Well, one major difference was that this time around the "Prussians" decided the quickest way to Paris lay through a smaller, neutral country's territory. Also, the English Channel is a lot narrower than the Atlantic Ocean and events on the continent thus seemed more immediate and pressing than they did in America. I'm sure you've read (such as in Paul Fussell's The Great War and Modern Memory about how the guns on the Western Front could sometimes be heard in London and how soldiers at the front commented on the "ridiculous proximity" of Britain. 90+ years on and with a different outlook on the world it's hard to imagine, but it seems to me that the war came calling on Britain, rather than the other way around.

[jasmor58]

Marc,

Welcome to the forum.

Jasmor58

[MichaelBully]

Hello Marc

Welcome to the Forum and was interested in reading your post. I am intrigued to hear about 'War is War' by Ex private x, published by Victor Gollancz Ltd and that it was published in 1930.

At the time there seemed to be a whole new wave of Great War memoirs; Seigfried Sasoon's 'Memoirs of a Fox-Hunting Man' and Edumund Blunden's 'Undertones of War' in 1928, In 1929 some twenty nine new titles were published in this genre including Robert Graves 'Goodbye To All That', Charles Carrington's 'A Subaltern's War', an English translation of 'All Quiet on the Western Front' and in the same year a very successful West End run of R.C. Sherriff's play set in the trenches 'Journey's End'.

And the trend continued well into the 1930's and has been revived at intervals since. I will have to check out 'War is War'.

<<<<<Anyway what promted me to post was the overridding fascination I have with the GW is how the Goverment/State motivated millions of British men to go of and risk death and maiming,>>>>>

Obviously an important question. When service was voluntary and at the very start ,few men could really have envisaged how the Great War was going to turn out with trench warfare, machine guns, the sort of artillery. But even then there still seemed to a fair number of men who felt that somehow it was their duty to go and fight, particularly when men they had known had died or been injured.

There was of course a very clever recruitment campaign, sometimes pressure from girlfriends, employers, even clergy to sign up. Mass circulation newspapers backing the war had some impact. But these seemed to have played on a sense of obligation to one's country that must have been there for many men.

Then in 1916 came conscription so there was less option. Class and regional factors also have to be looked at.

On another thread I have started discussing MPs who were opposed to the War and it is interesting how the political case against the War did not have a large influence even when the course of the conflict did not seem to be going well, and when the casualty list was rising.

Regards

Michael

[Terry_Reeves]

Ex Private Ex was the short story writer, A M Burrage, a man full of contradictions. His book works on a whole lot of levels, and for the most part, for me at least, is hilarious. Burrage was from the middling classes of British society. He was a member of the 28th Battalion, The London Regiment (Artists Rifles) whose membership was definitely middle- class. He was a private soldier who despised officers, but aspired to be one; his application for a commission, however, was refused. He appears to despise the working class who made up most of the Army in the war, yet his best mate was one of them. He despised the French, particularly their women, yet he made friends with one of them, and her family. After being discharged at the end of the war he rejoined Artists Rifles, despite his cynical view of the military. Around about this time he got married. It could be argued that he needed the money, but I rather suspect he missed the comradeship. There is more to Burrage than meets the eye.

TR

[Jon th14]

For anyone who doesn't have this, Pen & Sword are reissuing it in April this year.

http://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/?product_id=2441

[Tom Morgan]

It's a great book. A. M. Burrage achieved great fame as a writer of ghost stories. I read it in the 60s and it's always been a favourite of mine. It's good to see it published at last with his name on the cover.

I like the way that the book has been reduced already, from £19.99 to £15.99. How can they say say "WAS £19.99" when it doesn't exist yet?

Tom

[cdeayton]

Welcome to the forum Marc

In response, it's difficult to see the acceptable alternative to Britain's involvement in the war and once involved, her total commitment. Abandoning France to her fate (likely a very nasty one considering the nature of Prussian militarism) would have both emboldened a victorious Germany and radically shifted the continental balance of power as well representing a betrayal of the very principles that underpinned British society. It was very much in Britain's interest to fight and win the war. There are all sorts of geographic, strategic and political reasons for American isolationism which was an entirely rational response to what was widely regarded in the US as remote, internecine bloodletting in Europe. A US expedition to defend France in 1914 or 1915 would have been politically unsupportable.

Nor is the flocking to the recruiting booths to be wondered at given the the unrelenting boredom, harshness and poverty of the post-industrial labouring life which provided a ready supply of volunteers in 1914 & 15. The fact that Australians and other colonials thought of themselves as British (30% were born there) along with a desire to experience the great events of their time largely explained the rush to enlist here. It's worth noting that once the reality of war hit home, recruiting figures began plummeting in late 1915 for the reason you point out.

Best wishes and enjoy the forum.

Craig

[Longboat]

I've got to agree with Tom. It's a great book. I came it across after reading an extract of it in "Fifty Amazing Stories of the Great War." On that basis I brought a copy from N&MP and didnt regret it for a moment.

As Terry mentions it portrays the authors own cynicism and at times contradictory view of those around him but the author is also honest about his own inadeqacies, especially under fire.

Here's a bit more about Alfred Burrage

http://www.firstworldwar.com/diaries/burrage_intro.htm

Stuart

[horatio2]

For afficionados of the Royal Naval Division, his description of the attack by the Artists Rifles and 190 Bde RND in the Passchendaele swamps is a sobering read. (See pages 130 - 153.)

[Terry_Reeves]

To add to horatio's post, one of the focal points of that attack was Varlet Farm, whose present day owners are Charlotte and Dirk Cardoen-Descamps. Charlotte is a member of this forum.

TR