What happened to the helmets?

[centurion]

Large numbers of POWs were taken by all sides on the WF. They would be stripped of their equipment after capture -so what happened to the thousands upon thousands of Stahlhelms, Brodies and Adrians? Rifles and ammo would doubtless go off to arms dumps and might be recycled, issued to second line forces, impecunious allies etc but what was done with the helmets - collected and melted down?

[Steven Broomfield]

My gran used to have a Brodie (this was 45 years ago) with holes punched in it to use as a hanging flower basket. I suspect it's not typical, though.

Ploughshares?

[trenchtrotter]

There are pictures of huge piles of captured Stahlhelms and I suspect they were recycled. I have also seen images of piles of them that have ben pierced with a pickaxe blade to put out of service permanently.

TT

[T8HANTS]

My gran used to have a Brodie (this was 45 years ago) with holes punched in it to use as a hanging flower basket. I suspect it's not typical, though.

As a boy I can think of at least three houses that used Brodies as hanging baskets, and my own raw edge version had the tell tale three holes including an almost rusted out base/top.

The local garage had a Stahlhelm as lead pot, with a nice spout knocked into the peak. Wrong war I know but there was a scarecrow on the nearby allotments in full WW2 German uniform, belt and Stahlhelm included.

T'was all junk then.

G

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

I have also seen images of piles of them that have ben pierced with a pickaxe blade to put out of service permanently

There is a superb {yet heartbreaking} picture in the 1933 Daily Express Photo record of the Great War of a scrapyard worker doing just this to piles of Stalhelm,each neatly pierced with a 1" Square Hole~As a lad who desperately wanted a "German Helmet" this was horrific!!

[high wood]

1) The rare M1916 flowerpot variant.

2) The superbly crafted stand attachment.

3) In full flowerpot holder mode.

[SiegeGunner]

Mein Gott, Herr Hochwald, that is no common-or-garden plantpot holder - that is an extremely rare example of the M16-Combi helmet with carrier pigeon landing deck.

[dycer]

Cent,

I visited the Albert Museum, a few years ago.

In their Gift Shop,were Tin Helmets,both British and German,recovered from the 1916 Battlefields,and offered,for sale.

I chose to ignore the helmets,realising what they meant.

But if someone wishes to visit a Museum,in France or Belgium and purchase a recovered WW1 artefact,and feel they are closer to the original wearer,so be it.

George

[Gunner Bailey]

I chose to ignore the helmets,realising what they meant.

Can you explain this statement? A helmet is a piece of kit.

John

[joerookery]

In the United States many many helmets were given out as incentives to purchase war loans.

Friday Feb 7, 1919 THE STARS AND STRIPES newspaper, Page 1, Column 1:

"85,750 Shiny Ones on Way to American

Prussian Guards' Helmets will help sale of Liberty Bonds

The doughboy guards at Coblenz who kept the keys to the German warehouses where 85,750 Shiny Prussian Guards helmets were stacked are restored to good nature. They eat normally, and no longer dream of great helmet robbery mysteries. For the helmets are out of their custody at last and on their way back to the States. The warehouse keys arent't needed any longer. The helmets are to be handed out back home to buyers of bonds of the Fight Liberty Loan.

Meanwhile, traders on the AEF souvenir bourse are eagerly watching the tape for the first transatlantic quotation on Helmets.

Word of the 85,750 helmets in one buiding leaped back through the AEF almost before the advance guard of the Third Army settled in Coblenz. Mails from the rear areas of the AEF to the Army of Occupation grew unaccountably large. Every man in the A of O had from six to 60 friends whose latest letters always said after speaking pointedly of lugers and mausers and iron crosses: "And of course I am relying on you to get one of those 85,000 helmets for me."

The pressure of visitors to the warehouse grew so strong that the chief salvage officer at Third Army Headquarters posted a big sign: No More Helmets Given Out."

[Peridot]

Stahlhelms were also popular as coal scuttles with a base affixed.

Peridot

[dycer]

Can you explain this statement? A helmet is a piece of kit.

John

John,

Given their location i.e. the Somme and the fact they had been in the earth for some time.

I assumed, many of the original wearers are in the adjacent Cemeteries.

George

[Roger34]

I remember seeing a photo of German helmets being steamrollered to make a road surface during WW1, but I can't remember where I saw it?

Roger

[high wood]

Howard Williamson's, The collector and researchers's guide to the Great War, volume 2, page 252.

[Roger34]

Thank you High Wood, I've checked my copy of the book and you are spot on. Do you know if volume one is available anywhere?

Thanks

Roger

[Tom W.]

Large numbers of POWs were taken by all sides on the WF. They would be stripped of their equipment after capture -so what happened to the thousands upon thousands of Stahlhelms, Brodies and Adrians?

Well, every single American war movie made in the U.S. from the 1920s to the 1950s used the M.1916 or M1917 Stahlhelm, so thousands must have been bought up by the studios.

They even used WWI Stahlhelm in 1960s TV series.

[ralphjd]

Thank you High Wood, I've checked my copy of the book and you are spot on. Do you know if volume one is available anywhere?

Thanks

Roger

[/quote

Roger. Apparantly hard to get now, I will have a word with my mate who is in the book trade if you wish. Ralph.

[themonsstar]

Three of them ended up in my house

[Chief_Chum]

...and, as Joe Rookery says, a few ended up in the USA where they were used for fund-raising...

I also have a rusty Brodie and a Stahlhelm hanging outside by kitchen door waiting for me to get around to filling them with plants.

.

[RobL]

My gran used to have a Brodie (this was 45 years ago) with holes punched in it to use as a hanging flower basket. I suspect it's not typical, though.

As a boy I can think of at least three houses that used Brodies as hanging baskets, and my own raw edge version had the tell tale three holes including an almost rusted out base/top.

The local garage had a Stahlhelm as lead pot, with a nice spout knocked into the peak. Wrong war I know but there was a scarecrow on the nearby allotments in full WW2 German uniform, belt and Stahlhelm included.

T'was all junk then.

G

My brodie, and possibly one other, was also used as a flower pot/basket - no holes in it though, I think the chinstrap loops may have been used instead

[auchonvillerssomme]

Must have been a hell of an extra large size to be used as a coal scuttle!

[Gunner Bailey]

John,

Given their location i.e. the Somme and the fact they had been in the earth for some time.

I assumed, many of the original wearers are in the adjacent Cemeteries.

George

Hi George

I think you may be over sensitive about this. Millions of helmets were discarded during the war. Many thousands ended up in farmers barns, local people's collections or were buried on the battlefields. Many local farmers collected vast amounts of scrap during the battlefield clearances. These are being found and disposed of all the time. The chances of the owners being in the local cemeteries is low, though I will guarantee the original owners are all dead now (sadly).

John

[dycer]

John,

Bearing in mind this is a discussion Forum.

We know Divisional Salvage Companies operated recovering kit that could be reused.

I was rather surprised by the sheer number of helmets that were available for sale in the Albert Museum,when I visited in 1999.Most if not all had spent many years in the earth.The good ones being used as exhibits.

I can appreciate, as some of the photographs on the Thread, show " captured enemy helmets" being used for war-like purposes e.g road building,etc and others being retained as personal souvenirs to be turned into coal scuttles,plant holders,etc.

Discarded helmets,during the war and afterwards, I suggest would have been seen as reusable material e.g. refurbishing and reissue where possible if friendly and melting down to extract the raw material if enemy.

From my little direct knowledge of the British Army I doubt it allowed men to just throw away their helmets at the end of hostilities.It could have done,of course,preferring to deduct pay for lost kit.

With the number that were for sale in the Museum I did wonder if discarded helmets were actually recovered after Battle or just allowed to lie,which ties in with your suggestion that many were recovered by local farmers after the War.I'm making the assumption here that casualties were not buried with their helmets.

George

[Gunner Bailey]

Hi George

I know that many German did ditch their helmets at the end of hostilities and returned to their soft caps. You are right that the British Troops were not allowed to follow suit.

I have bought a helmet at the Albert museum shop and have had many a chat with the the owner at the shop or at his cafe in La Boisselle. He tries to buy collections when they are available so he tends to get large batches of helmets of all types from one source at a time. So these collects could have come from many locations across France and not just the Somme. A good number of 'barn find' helmets do emerge and I have bought a few in the last couple of years. Having spoken to the sellers at local brocantes these helmets have often sat on barn or shed shelves for decades. In many cases their grandparents picked them up where they were discarded by Germans at the end of WW1 or in the case of British and French helmets, normally just picked up as the land was cleared of debris, be it on the front line or on the many hundreds of army camp sites or CCS sites behind the lines. In the 80's I had a friend who owned a house in Warloy Baillon. When he dug out ground for a swimming pool he found enough British kit, rifles, bullets, grenades, webbing, water bottles, helmets etc to fill a bomb disposal lorry. The site of his house was a CCS and this stuff had just been buried by the British Army. So this stuff (especially relic helmets) is found everywhere.

John

[dycer]

John,

It is apparent,from the one British Battalion War Diary, I have access to, and contains movement orders. That the then,Commanding Officer,was keen to tell his men,when they could wear caps,or needed helmets.

I take your point about helmets,as battlefield debris,being recovered from all over the, then Western Front,and now being offered for sale,in WW1 Museums.

But as you have explained e.g. your friend who dug a swimming pool and discovered evidence of previous British presence.The original question still remains i.e. were helmets recycled or allowed to rot,for tourist purchase,90 years later?

George