Germany’s Western Front

[sjustice]

I see that a Canadian team has undertaken a project to publish Der Weltkrieg. This is not available in the UK yet so I would be very interested to hear any views on this first (1915) volume and the projected series.

The editors are Mark Humphries and John Maker. I don't know who the translater(s) is/are or to what extent the text has been boiled from the original volumes. Which, for example, version of 1918 will be used?

This could be the most important publication for many years. Would it be preferable to release a straight translation of all the volumes?

Any/all thoughts welcome. Please review if you can get hold of a copy

Check out the release information HERE.

Cheers,

Simon

[MartH]

Hi Simon there is already a thread on this Click Click. It has not been updated for a while

It looks like it will only be the Western Front, and only 7 Parts translated compared to the 14 of the original series, without looking at the additional volumes. I do wish they would get the bibliographic details correct, the work was only completed in 1956, nor was Volume 14 ever published in 1944, only a few proof copies where printed and circulated and printed. The 1956 printing has even an introduction explaining the convoluted process which has not found its way into the publishers description.

The best thing to happen would be for them to finish the other volumes, such Heavy Artillery.

The reduction to 7 Parts is a pity because a lot of the thinking on tactics where worked out on the Eastern Front, and the write up of the lessons learned has implications for the Western Front. In fact the more I learn about the Eastern Front the more I realise that you cannot understand the Germans on the Western Front without knowledge of what happened on the Eastern Front. I'm busy reading up on Operation Albion and it's fascinating.

[Ken S.]

I see that a Canadian team has undertaken a project to publish Der Weltkrieg. This is not available in the UK yet so I would be very interested to hear any views on this first (1915) volume and the projected series.

The editors are Mark Humphries and John Maker. I don't know who the translater(s) is/are or to what extent the text has been boiled from the original volumes. Which, for example, version of 1918 will be used?

This could be the most important publication for many years. Would it be preferable to release a straight translation of all the volumes?

Any/all thoughts welcome. Please review if you can get hold of a copy

Check out the release information HERE.

Cheers,

Simon

Actually, given the apparent general distrust of "official" German sources, I'm not sure that this book will receive much interest. It's also fairly expensive, which means that it will only reach a limited number of researchers, too.

[sjustice]

Hi Simon there is already a thread on this..

<snip>

The reduction to 7 Parts is a pity because a lot of the thinking on tactics where worked out on the Eastern Front, and the write up of the lessons learned has implications for the Western Front. In fact the more I learn about the Eastern Front the more I realise that you cannot understand the Germans on the Western Front without knowledge of what happened on the Eastern Front. I'm busy reading up on Operation Albion and it's fascinating.

Hi Mart,

I thought you would jump in here. Good! I know there are a number of experts on Der Weltkrieg here so I hope they contribute. Apologies for missing that thread, I only searched in this forum, which is probably the best place for a discussion now?

I wonder at the exclusion of the Ostfront. Another set, perhaps? Why not publish the whole thing? The publication of the Western Front volumes of the BOH seems to have worked in terms of a commercial venture? Maybe the 'editors' are having the same problems as Sir James with their own paymasters!

Cheers

Simon

[sjustice]

Actually, given the apparent general distrust of "official" German sources, I'm not sure that this book will receive much interest. It's also fairly expensive, which means that it will only reach a limited number of researchers, too.

Perhaps if the whole work was translated we could discuss the content rather than a general view? If that was the case I don't think the release would be as price-sensitive as one might think. A selected transcript...maybe not so useful to the researcher, but a better read? I don't know what the thinking is behind the release. What does Huw Strachan's preface say?

Cheers,

Simon

[MartH]

These volumes are huge, Volume 14 is 793 pages . I suspect that the cost and time of translating them will be very expensive. It sounds like the 1915 translators are annotating what is written with notes and explanations. I suspect they started on 1915 because its when Canadian troops started playing a large role. I do hope it's not translations of just the sections with respect to the Canadian situation.

They where very carefully researched and written, but the Prussian High Command started modern Official Histories, and the business of writing up the lessons learned for future generations was well understood. Check Paul's' posts on the folders referring to Verdun, those that are still extant.

As ever Official Histories should be seen as the start of writing of history, not the definitive or last word.

[SiegeGunner]

Actually, given the apparent general distrust of "official" German sources, I'm not sure that this book will receive much interest.

As a translator who translates bits of Der Weltkrieg and Schlachten des Weltkrieges when someone pays me to, I will certainly be interested to see what sort of a job they have made of it. As far as this 'general distrust' is concerned, I have translated unit reports written a couple of days after events, regimental histories written years after the same events, and 'official history' written even later, and found no significant differences or discrepancies. If you have any documented evidence of interference/distortion, Ken, please tell us about it.

[Ken S.]

Perhaps if the whole work was translated we could discuss the content rather than a general view? If that was the case I don't think the release would be as price-sensitive as one might think. A selected transcript...maybe not so useful to the researcher, but a better read? I don't know what the thinking is behind the release. What does Huw Strachan's preface say?

Cheers,

Simon

Well, I should say that Amazon.ca has it for just over $53, which is more reasonable. I was in fact just at the McMaster university bookstore, and if it was there, I missed it. I certainly would have liked to have been able to give it a good perusal.

[Ken S.]

As a translator who translates bits of Der Weltkrieg and Schlachten des Weltkrieges when someone pays me to, I will certainly be interested to see what sort of a job they have made of it. As far as this 'general distrust' is concerned, I have translated unit reports written a couple of days after events, regimental histories written years after the same events, and 'official history' written even later, and found no significant differences or discrepancies. If you have any documented evidence of interference/distortion, Ken, please tell us about it.

I don't recall trying to make an issue in my first post out of "differences or discrepancies" in German sources, so I'm not sure why you are. I'm suggesting that many people (in the English-speaking world) still feel inclined to distrust them. I, for one, am all for the translation of German sources, in particular unit histories; it's long overdue.

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

I did some of the work on the 1915 volume and hope to receive a copy shortly. The books were translated in full and all references, sections, etc. were included and it is not confined to Canadian issues alone.

Once I receive the copy I will post my thoughts on it. From what I recall it was a very good translation of the original and great lengths were made to properly translate or describe what the original had to say.

Ralph

[Robert Dunlop]

The reduction to 7 Parts is a pity because a lot of the thinking on tactics where worked out on the Eastern Front, and the write up of the lessons learned has implications for the Western Front. In fact the more I learn about the Eastern Front the more I realise that you cannot understand the Germans on the Western Front without knowledge of what happened on the Eastern Front. I'm busy reading up on Operation Albion and it's fascinating.

Good points, Mart. And as an aside, Operation Albion is very interesting as you say.

Thanks for deeper insight, Ralph. I look forward to your further comments.

Robert

[truthergw]

I don't recall trying to make an issue in my first post out of "differences or discrepancies" in German sources, so I'm not sure why you are. I'm suggesting that many people (in the English-speaking world) still feel inclined to distrust them. I, for one, am all for the translation of German sources, in particular unit histories; it's long overdue.

Presumably you can share your reasons for believing that many people in the English speaking world are inclined to distrust these sources? I know that here on the forum there has been discussion and disagreement as to how trustworthy German reports are. How widespread that distrust is, I have no idea nor whether it is directed to all reports or just some. I have the original 1st volume of the Archiv series and I found it most interesting. I also have its British counterpart, in so far as they tally. Again, it is interesting to contrast and compare the accounts. I doubt if I will shell out for a Canadian translation but for those who cannot read the original, it will hopefully be better than nothing.

[Chris_Baker]

$53? Where do I sign? It's currently £64 at Amazon's UK site.

[MartH]

I have done some more investigation looking at the contents here Click Click on the publishers website.

I have also copied it at the bottom of this post.

In the German Original 1915 is covered in three volumes,: 7, 8, & 9, but the Eastern Front is covered too.

So being reduced to 7 parts might not be a bad thing.

When this title was first released it was advertised at around £35, the cheapest prices is from Amazon Canada at 44.90 including £10 postage. It's not current available on Amazon UK.

Finally I go hope the maps are in colour.

Table of Contents for Germany’s Western Front: Translations from the German Official History of the Great War 1915 edited by Mark Osborne Humphries and John Maker

Table of Maps

Preface

Introduction

Acknowledgements

A Note on the Translation and Sources

PART I: WINTER AND SPRING

I. THE QUESTION OF THE WAR’S CENTRE OF GRAVITY IN JANUARY

II. THE CAMPAIGN IN THE WEST TO THE MIDDLE OF APRIL

1. Decision-making at the OHL

2. Operations on Western Front until the Middle of February 1915

The Battle of Soissons

Seventh Army

The Winter Battle in the Champagne

Fifth Army

3. The French and British High Commands at the Beginning of the Year

4. The Peak of the Winter Battle in the Champagne from the Middle of February until the Middle of March 1915

Intentions of the French Commanders in the Champagne

The German Defence Operations on the Remainder of the Western Front from the Middle of February to the Middle of March 1915

5.

The Battle at Neuve Chapelle

Armee Abteilung Strantz The Return of the OHL to the Western Theatre of War

6. 7. The Defensive Battles from the Middle of March until the Middle of April

The Defensive Battle of Armee Abteilung Strantz THE CHANGE IN FALKENHAYN’S PLANS

8. 1. The Creation of the New GHQ Reserve

2. The Plan to Mount a Decisive Breakthrough Operation in the West

3. The Political Situation and its Influence on the Military Decision-Making

The Political Situation through to the Dardanelles Offensive

The Political Situation until the Employment of the GHQ Reserve in the East

PART II: SPRING AND SUMMER

I. THE SITUATION OF THE CENTRAL POWERS IN MAY

1. The Intervention of Italy

2. The Intensification of the Economic Situation and Economic Warfare by Submarine

3. The Manpower and Ammunition Situation to the End of the Year

II. THE WESTERN FRONT FROM THE MIDDLE OF APRIL TO THE BEGINNING OF AUGUST

1. Operations to the Start of the Spring Battle at the Beginning of May

The High Command and the Forces on the Western Front in April

The Gas Attack by Fourth Army at Ypres

The Offensive Battles of the Armee Abteilungs Strantz and Gaede Actions of the French and British Commanders to the Beginning of May

2. 3. The Beginning of the Spring Offensive in the Artois

Sixth Army’s Battles from 9–14 May

Lochow’s Assumption of Command on the Main Battle Front and the Fighting until the Middle of June Operations of the Remaining Armies on the Western Front from the Middle of May to the End of July

4. 5. The Renewal of the Major Offensive in the Artois: Operations from 16–18 June to the End of the Spring Offensive

6. Conclusion

7. The Reorganization of the Western Army Part I: Until the Beginning of August

III. CONDUCTING THE MULTI-FRONT WAR IN THE SUMMER OF 1915

1. The Situation to the Beginning of August

2. The OHL’s Peace Efforts

3. Shifting of the War’s Center of Gravity

PART III: SUMMER AND AUTUMN

I. THE MILITARY SITUATION IN THE MIDDLE OF SEPTEMBER

II. THE WESTERN FRONT FROM MID-AUGUST TO THE BEGINNING OF THE AUTUMN OFFENSIVE

1. The Enemy’s Situation and Plans in the Summer

2. The OHL from August to 22 September

3. The Events on the Western Front until 22 September

In the Artois

In the Champagne

On the Remainder of the Western Front

III. THE AUTUMN OFFENSIVE IN THE ARTOIS AND CHAMPAGNE

1. The Preparation for the Battle (22 to 24 September 1915)

In the Artois

In the Champagne The OHL until Noon on 25 September

2. 3. The 25th of September

The Attack in the Artois

The Attack in the Champagne Actions of the OHL during the afternoon of 25 September 26 September

4.

In the Artois

In the Champagne

The OHL The Further Course of the Battle until the end of September

5.

In the Artois

In the Champagne The OHL in the Beginning of the October

6. 7. The Renewal of the Offensive in October

The Artois Front: Operations, 30 September–10 October

The Artois Front: Operations, 11–13 October

The Champagne Front: Operations, 30 September–5 October 499

The Champagne Front: New Major Offensive Operations after 6 October The Enemy’s Situation at the End of the Offensive

8. 9. Lessons Learned from the Fall Offensive

IV. THE EVENTS UNTIL THE END OF THE YEAR

1. Operations of the Remaining Armies until mid-October

2. The Reorganization of the Western Army Part II

3. Events from mid-October until the End of the Year

Fourth Army

Sixth, Second, and Seventh Armies

Third Army

Fifth Army

Armee Abteilung Strantz

Armee Abteilung Falkenhausen

Armee Abteilung Gaede

4. The Situation of the Entente Forces in the West at the Close of the Year

5. The OHL in November and December

V. THE CENTRAL POWERS SITUATION AT THE END OF 1915

APPENDICES

Appendix 1: A Comparison of German, British, and French Artillery in the Spring Battles in the Artois

Appendix 2: A Comparison of German, British, and French Artillery in the Autumn Battles

Appendix 3: A Comparison of Forces at War’s Beginning and the end of 1915

Appendix 4: Overview of Powder and Munitions Production from War’s Beginning to the End of 1915

Appendix 5: Standing Orders for the Defence in the West

Selected Bibliography

[Robert Dunlop]

Mart, the maps are not in colour. More significantly, they are reduced down to fit on a single page

Robert

[truthergw]

I picked up all 3 volumes of 1915 for about 60 Euros. All maps and photographs included. They might well be worth the cost alone. Although the Schlachten series are based on them, I have found that the few I have are variable in content. Some are very flowery. The Ypern volume for instance, with its seagull's eyeview for an intro.

[MartH]

truthergw are you sure the Schlachten series are based upon them? Many where published before the respective Der Weltkrieg. I have never done a cross check with maps, photos and narrative. I would be very interested in your findings, and are you referring to the photos in Schlachten? I can't recall ever seeing photos in Der Weltkrieg.

You are right about the maps in colour and large format alone being worth money now Robert has said that the maps are one pagers and in black and white, great shame.

[Robert Dunlop]

I don't recall trying to make an issue in my first post out of "differences or discrepancies" in German sources...

Understood. The problem is, however, that new Pals may misinterpret your post. You mentioned 'the apparent general distrust of "official" German sources'. New Pals might think that such a "general distrust" is warranted because it is "general". It would be unfortunate if people decided not buy to the book on the back of this perception. It is great that Mick has provided insights from his experience with German primary sources. A decision to buy should be based on cost, not on a perception that the content is not trustworthy because it was from German "official" sources (forgive the double negative). Not that Der Weltkrieg is perfect, but even the British Official History cannot be regarded as the whole truth.

Robert

[truthergw]

truthergw are you sure the Schlachten series are based upon them? Many where published before the respective Der Weltkrieg. I have never done a cross check with maps, photos and narrative. I would be very interested in your findings, and are you referring to the photos in Schlachten? I can't recall ever seeing photos in Der Weltkrieg.

You are right about the maps in colour and large format alone being worth money now Robert has said that the maps are one pagers and in black and white, great shame.

Neunter Band. last of the 3 1915 volumes, is the nearest to hand and has a nice glossy photo in the Skizze. I am fairly sure there are more, I probably would not have remembered 1. Excuse me for not checking them all at the moment, I am literally kneedeep in another little project. As to saying that the Schlachten were based on the Archiv, the frontispiece of my copy of " Die Schlacht um Flandern 1917", has ' im Auftrage des Reicharchivs '. Again that is the nearest to hand but I believe all the copies say the same. Translating that very loosely as " Under the auspices of" I understand that to mean taken from the same sources as the actual Archiv volumes.

[sjustice]

Hello all,

Did this project die a death after 1915?

Cheers,

Simon

[Ken S.]

The second of the six volumes will be released in April...

http://www.wlupress.wlu.ca/press/Catalog/humphries-maker-1914a.shtml

[sjustice]

The second of the six volumes will be released in April...

http://www.wlupress.wlu.ca/press/Catalog/humphries-maker-1914a.shtml

Aye Ken. Do you know if there is a schedule for intended release of other parts?

Cheers,

Simon

[MartH]

It saddens and disappoints me, when the translators of this work gets some of the bibliographical details wrong. Maybe when they translate the preface to Volume 14 they will correct themselves.

[Paul Hederer]

If you all have any specific questions or concerns I can pass them along to the project participants for you.

Paul

[sjustice]

If you all have any specific questions or concerns I can pass them along to the project participants for you.

Paul

Hi Paul,

Happy New Year and all that. My only question: is there a schedule for translation and publication of the other volumes?

Cheers,

Simon