Smith Dorrien

[dobbin]

For a balanced view then I suggest you read Chapter 9 'Horace Smith-Dorrien, Second Army 1914-15' by Steven J.Corvi in 'Haig's Generals ' edited by Ian F.W. Beckett and Steven J. Corvi; published in 2006, good bibliography and plenty of notes for further reading.

Philip

Thanks Philip I havent managed to trace that title anywhere yet Colin

[Philip Wilson]

Thanks Philip I havent managed to trace that title anywhere yet Colin

Colin

Haig's Generals - ISBN ref 1-84415-169-7 published P & S in 2006.

Philip

[Brian Curragh]

Colin

"Haig's Generals" is available from Amazon - buy it through the Forum link in the top menu bar.

"Haig's Generals"

Regards

Brian

[dobbin]

Colin

"Haig's Generals" is available from Amazon - buy it through the Forum link in the top menu bar.

"Haig's Generals"

Regards

Brian

Thanks Brian that made me look again and I was pleased to find it in my library so it is on its way. Colin

[Robert Dunlop]

The 2 1914 volumes are Here - Aug/Oct and Here - Oct/Nov.

Well done, Brian. Thanks very much.

Robert

[armourersergeant]

I have often wondered if the biggest question re Le Cateau, is not SD standing but would Haig or Grierson (if he had lived)? I am inclined to think they both would have.

Allenby (Cav Corps), Hamilton (3rd div) Forestier-Walker (BGGS II Corps) all advised SD he had no choice but to stand and fight. Given that unanimous advice was there really a choice? All that said he had the courage to make that decision and should be worthly recognised for doing so. One of my favourites in the Generals family.

The NA hold a copy of his Diary/account of his WW1 doings, got a copy somewhere on my crowded hard drive.

Regards

Arm

[dobbin]

I have often wondered if the biggest question re Le Cateau, is not SD standing but would Haig or Grierson (if he had lived)? I am inclined to think they both would have.

Allenby (Cav Corps), Hamilton (3rd div) Forestier-Walker (BGGS II Corps) all advised SD he had no choice but to stand and fight. Given that unanimous advice was there really a choice? All that said he had the courage to make that decision and should be worthly recognised for doing so. One of my favourites in the Generals family.

The NA hold a copy of his Diary/account of his WW1 doings, got a copy somewhere on my crowded hard drive.

Regards

Arm

Thanks for that information Arm if you ever dig out the W diary detail on that I would be glad of a copy if you have the time Thanks again Colin

[David Filsell]

Whatever SD's many merits, he was famous for his bad temper.

This may be of interest:

Jan. 28th 1908

"I dined with the Genaral (French) at the Carlton, Smith-Dorrien and Maurice. The dinner was given to see whether Smith-Dorrien had changed and weakened as some maintain. He spoke very well on Indian subjects, and seemed a very reasonable, clear-headed man. Ther are no signs in has manner or appearance of the violent temper he is credited with, and his voice is very pleaseant".

(Journals and Leters of Reginald Viscount Esher Vol.2 1903 - 1910.

Esher was a much trusted and waspish Liberal Government 'fixer' and highly influential. It would have been a fascinating meal table to join>

Regards

David

[truthergw]

Interesting David, in view of the subsequent, alleged ' bad blood' between Sir John and SD that they should be dining together.

[David Filsell]

I think more than alleged. The dislike became most pronounced when DS took over the Aldershot Command from French andf made wholesale changes.. And the hits just kept coming. French was not a realist, Haig, Rawlinson and others commented regularly during 1st Ypres just how over-confident French was in GHQ intelligence reports, knowing from their own work in the area how wrong F was. F also veered from sup[reme confidence to deep gloom. SD's appreciation of situations seems to have been much more realistic and proportionate and he was not frighteneed to give French honest opinions of things which F did not want to hear. Thus F though SD a doom monger (Incidentally Rawlinson was accused of having a similar attitude and sent home. Theoretically this was to prepare 8th Inf Division for the "new War". In reality Rawlinson's presenation of the facts to French (and some engineering by Haig who took over 7th Inf Div as part of I Corps) was more likely the cause.

However, he certainly did not meet Napoleon's criterion - "is he lucky", in his subsequent career.

Bets regards

David

[lostinspace]

Thanks to this interesting thread I am now reading "The Man Who Disobeyed" and ran across this on page 178, referring to the retreat of 24 August - "The day's fighting had cost Sir Horace's corps about 2,000 casualties, the bulk of them this time coming from the 5th Division. Something of the strain on commanders and staff can be judged from the fact that Hamilton's GSOI, Colonel Boileau, broke down completely and shot himself." I guess this would be Col. F.R.F. Boileau, R.E., would anyone have any further information on where and when this happened? From what I can gather he had been on the Anglo-German Boundary Commission in Africa (1898) and also fought in South Africa, the CWGC lists him as being buried at Terlincthun British Cemetery, Wimille (Boulogne) having died on 28 August, but A.F. Becke's book (OOB of Divisions, Part 1) shows that he died of wounds on 26 August. I know that the pressure on these officers must have been severe as Edmonds (GSOI 4 Division) broke down under the strain later in the campaign.

Regards,

Dave

[BJanman]

Thanks to this interesting thread I am now reading "The Man Who Disobeyed" and ran across this on page 178, referring to the retreat of 24 August - "The day's fighting had cost Sir Horace's corps about 2,000 casualties, the bulk of them this time coming from the 5th Division. Something of the strain on commanders and staff can be judged from the fact that Hamilton's GSOI, Colonel Boileau, broke down completely and shot himself." I guess this would be Col. F.R.F. Boileau, R.E., would anyone have any further information on where and when this happened?

Regards,

Dave

This is an old thread but just in case you are still interested and have not discovered this yet yourself - he was treated by Maj Fielding, 7th Field Ambulance and T/Capt Robinson, 8th Field Ambulance.

T/Capt Robinson's memoir gives an account of this, and so I googled to see if I could find any more info.

Regards

Barbara

[lostinspace]

Barbara,

Thanks so much for the update - did Capt. Robinson's memoir have any more information about Boileau? Had a look at your website but couldn't find anything on Fielding or Robinson (probably not looking in the right place).

Dave

[BJanman]

Hi Dave

I have taken most of the original officer’s profiles down because I am coming across lots of little snippets of information about them. I am adding this as I come across it and am hoping to activate them again soon.

Capt Robinson states he was approached by a soldier asking for some dressings for a wounded officer. He decided to investigate himself and found Col Boileau with Maj Fielding. Boileau had shot himself in the head (not his actual words). They dressed his wounds together then Capt Robinson left him in the care of Maj Fielding.

It explains where they were roughly. If you PM me your email address I can scan and send you the paragraph. Alternatively you can find a copy of the actual memoir with the war diary of the 8th Field Ambulance at the National Archive.

Maj Fielding became separated from his unit and so wrote his own report of events during his time away from the unit. Strangely though he doesn’t mention this!

Barbara

[lostinspace]

Thanks Barbara, pm sent.

Dave