Jock Bruce Posted 28 May , 2004 Share Posted 28 May , 2004 I'm currently ploughing through the registers of FGCM (WO 213) looking for FGCM in 5th Seaforth - the aim being to get an idea of the state of discipline in the battalion. Has anybody out there done this for 'their' unit ? - if so, I would be interested in doing a 'compare and contrast'. Jock Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted 28 May , 2004 Share Posted 28 May , 2004 A similar thought occurred to me when I was mischievous enough to research the Edmonton Irish Guards ( see: http://1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=11440 ). I did a superficial search on the original members of this unit to see how they may have misbehaved (they generally served as the 8th Canadian Railway Troops). As I recall I found 15 - 20 courts-martial. The only significant thing I noticed was that almost all offences were for things like disobediance or threatening an officer ( one mutiny, I think). There were few of the drunkenness or absence without leave cases which seems to dominate in other units. Of course, I was cheating here! The Canadian summaries are on-line. I only spent twenty minutes doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 28 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 28 May , 2004 The Canadian summaries are on-line. I only spent twenty minutes doing this. I wish you hadn't told me that! I'm getting through about 3 registers a day. It doesn't take all day to do three but that's about the point where the eyes go and the interest wanes. Only naother 8 or so to do. But it is fascinating stuff, not just for the insight into the unit I'm looking at but what is shows about discipline in the Army as a whole. Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lesley Posted 28 May , 2004 Share Posted 28 May , 2004 Jock, I have spent a number of highly entertaining days searching the FGCM registers for the Oxford and Bucks.I have yet to enter them into a database but the first impression is that the 2nd battalion were the drinkers and another battalion were notorious for going AWOL. Some of the cases have to be seen to be believed. A 2nd Lte was court martialled after being found in bed with an OR - case dismissed through lack of evidence! Lesley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 28 May , 2004 Share Posted 28 May , 2004 Hi Jock I have not gone looking for misbehaver but I have noticed that some Battalions of the K.S.L.I. have more Forfits then others, the 7th Battalion seem to have a far higher rate of forfits than the rest. You have just made me think if its worth adding another field to my date base so I can analyse which Battalion had the worst moral. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 28 May , 2004 Share Posted 28 May , 2004 Jock - I have found 12 of my 19th Londons so far who deserted - as shown in medal rolls. Ive been meaning to cross check against WO213 but havent got round to it. The two vols I have glanced at did not show the battalions or service numbers of the London Regt men. I'm saving this one for a very rainy day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 29 May , 2004 Share Posted 29 May , 2004 Stand To! number 70 of last month contains my research into discipline in RWF, using medal roll 1914 star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 30 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2004 Lesley - nothing that interesting in the Seaforths! Charles - yes, the absence of regimental numbers is a bit unhelpful, in particular for a battalion with some very common surnames. But so far the registers I've looked at seem pretty good about including the battalion's number - a good thing as my technique is simply to run an eye down the relevant column looking for instances of '5' or '1/5'. David - saw your article, excellent as always. Will be running through the medal rolls again as a final check for forfeited medals. What's interesting is how little serious crime there is in the 5th, certainly among the original TF soldiers - unlike the Army I don't consider a piper getting drunk as a 'crime', more as part of musical technique. Someone with the time and resources to throw the contents of these registers into a database could probably produce some very interesting stuff about the difference in discipline between regular/TF/service battalions; between regiments/corps; between different theatres; between different phases of the war, etc, etc. Not me though. Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 30 May , 2004 Share Posted 30 May , 2004 Someone with the time and resources to throw the contents of these registers into a database could probably produce some very interesting stuff about the difference in discipline between regular/TF/service battalions; between regiments/corps; between different theatres; between different phases of the war, etc, etc. Not me though. I had a feeling that someone was already doing something along these lines (e.g. Julian Putkowski and/or Gerard Oram) I agree, it would be a very useful database to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 30 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2004 Charles, I think Gerald Oram used these for 'Death Sentences Passed by Military Courts of the British Army 1914-1924'. But I suspect databasing the whole shebang would be a major undertaking - a pity, given the potential to analyse disciplinary patterns in the BEF and other theatres. Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenwoodman Posted 30 May , 2004 Share Posted 30 May , 2004 Jock Gerald Oram also wrote a paper entitled "Pious Perjury: Discipline and Morale in the British Forces in Italy, 1917-1918" published in War in History 2002 9 (4) pp 412-430. The synopsis reads:- The British Force deployed in Italy during 1917 and 1918 is an ideal topic for a study of morale and discipline. Uniquely, reports on troop morale based on mail censorship have survived. These, together with medical and court martial records, provide the basis for this article, which analyses the impact of illness and worsening conditions on the morale of the British troops in Italy. It is argued that these factors had as much impact on discipline as did military operations, and that the overall evidence points to the development of an increasingly lenient approach to discipline within which capital convictions were avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 4 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 4 June , 2004 Greenwoodsman, thanks for the reference, I'll hunt it down. Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Thorpe Posted 13 June , 2004 Share Posted 13 June , 2004 Jock, After your talk on Saturday, I shall be trawling the files and shall let you know. Regards T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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