DirtyDick Posted 29 May , 2004 Share Posted 29 May , 2004 Hello All Just wondering whether anyone knows how easy it is to obtain servicemen's papers from the USA. I have looked on the NARA site and am none the wiser! Basically, could I obtain a random example service paper(s) of US submariner sailors from WW1; and if so for what cost? (I live in the UK.) Also, at what date do US service papers come into the public domain? I have heard that in some cases fairly recent US papers can be obtained, but with large chunks of personal data censored: for example, are US post-WW2 records available to general researchers? Thanks for any advice, Richard As an incentive to reply, I'll have a word with HRH Princess Michael of Kent; the lucky American person will then get to have a meal next to her in their local restaurant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeff Floyd Posted 29 May , 2004 Share Posted 29 May , 2004 Richard, US servicemens' records are held in two locations. The St Louis Records Center holds records of those who were discharged post- WWI. Older records are held in the main National Archives in Washington, DC. In both cases, they are not easily accessed, although with persistence you can get some data. At the St Louis Records Center, you can rarely get much beyond a summary of service (enlistment dates, assignments, awards, etc), although some inquiries get photocopies of the actual records. The main Archives is staffed by folks who are actually interested in what they hold, so inquiries can often bring full personnel files. St Louis will only work with a full name and service number (Social Security number if post-1970). Their usual response to inquiries from here is to return your request with a form to fill out with the same information that is in your request. I'm convinced that the object there is to make you go away. If you send that form back with the info, then you may get a real response. Since their files ae stored alphabetically, they wouldn't know how to find a submariner without a specific name. Most service records are public record. Exceptions are medical records, efficiency reports and adverse actions (court-martials, demotions, etc). An exception to this is what's called the IPDF (Individual Deceased Personnel File), held in a seprate location still. The IDPF is a WWII and later file that relates to the burial of an individual or disposition of remains. WWII files tend to be short, mostly forms about burial location and identification of the body, but sometimes contain letters to an from the families. Later IPDFs, especially for Vietnam, contain some very graphic records from autopsy reports. These were meant for medical info, but can be obtained (they are not for the weak of heart). A fire in 1973 burned a large percentage of Army and Air Air Forces records for WWII. It feels like the firse is still burning because every record I ask for seems to be burned. Generally names beginning with A-E, and small portion of the end of the alphabet are there, but it's very spotty. Requests from outside the US seem to get as good returns as domestic requests. I've never been charge for records through St Louis, but always pay for records through the main Archives. The charges vary by the amount of copying done. Sorry for the long-winded response, but this is an arcane science here and there are few easy answers. I'd be happy to point you in the right direction if you've got specific things you're looking for (FJP4floyd@aol.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDick Posted 29 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 29 May , 2004 Thanks very much for the response, Jeff, it is greatly appreciated. From what you say it certainly seems rather haphazard, no doubt resulting in my confusion with their website, but as one would expect from governmental bodies! The '73 fire seems to have done for US historians and genealogists with regards to service records what the Luftwaffe did for us during WW2! Would any USN Submarine Museum be able to give any help? (In the UK the RN Submarine Museum holds some submariners' service records in conjunction with the National Archives.) Even if they could only give me a name and number that would be a great start, for it would allow me to request a specific file. I'll see whether I can get in touch with the National Archives. Thanks again, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeff Floyd Posted 30 May , 2004 Share Posted 30 May , 2004 Richard, You might try the following site: http://ussvi.org/ Somewhere in there will be a way to get a couple of names that can start you on your way. Unfortunately, we don't have a centralized submarine museum, but have a number of submarines in museums (including the WWII U-505, which resides in the Field Museum in Chicago). I don't recall ever running into much on pre-WWII submarines in any US museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDick Posted 30 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2004 Thanks again, Jeff - this looks promising. I've emailed them for some names and numbers and am awaiting reply. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 31 May , 2004 Share Posted 31 May , 2004 St Louis is absolutely incompetent; they burned their own records, WW1 also, did not know WW2 burned and they take forever to reply. Too bad you want naval records, many times if you know the state, state archives or adjutant general have records. In Kentucky reply is very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDick Posted 31 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2004 Paul, thanks for that information. Do you have the address for Kentucky? It's a long way from the sea ... but you never know. Cheers Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mlaverty Posted 31 May , 2004 Share Posted 31 May , 2004 You might try the website for the Naval Undersea Museum, located in Keyport, Washington state. The museum is chock full of submarine stuff...this is an official navy museum, located just down the road from the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard. Find them at http://www.keyportmuseum.cnrnw.navy.mil/. I seem to remember seeing some Great War material amongst the exhibits. Margaret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 1 June , 2004 Share Posted 1 June , 2004 New York Archives Hi Richard, The NY State archives are very good but unfortunately without a name I don't think they will be of much assistance in your project. Each request is $1 which is refunded if they do not find anything. Take care, Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 1 June , 2004 Share Posted 1 June , 2004 Richard it's a real real longshot to look at each state, you need to know that going in but if you search for Ky Adjutant General & then dept of military affairs you will end up at right place, if you have trouble let me know by email will send URL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDick Posted 1 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 1 June , 2004 Thanks guys, I'll try with KY. The NY Archives look promising; looked at their on-line form: maybe if I left it entirely in their hands to pick a random entry they would oblige. Even if it was not a submariner, for $1 a go it seems too good to miss and would allow me to compare US/UK training periods. Are USN papers laid out the same as RN examples, with a chronological list of ships and dates, conduct and proficiency? Thanks for the updates, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 1 June , 2004 Share Posted 1 June , 2004 Hi Richard, I have some service papers from New Jersey both Navy and Army (No Submariners though) and some from NY (Army only). New Jersey records will list the ships and bases served. If you are interested in them for comparison purposes I'd be happy to photocopy them for you and mail them over. Just e-mail me an address. Take care, Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDick Posted 5 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 5 June , 2004 Neil Just seen your posting today (Sat), that would be ideal. I'll PM you with my address etc. Your help is much appreciated and would offer a good comparison of WW1-ish RN/USN training, service and drafting. I've got an old USN GC medal that's named - not too common a name, I'd guess - and dated from the year ending his first enlistment of 1951: would this be enough to enable me to submit a search form to NA? Thanks again, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDick Posted 19 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 19 June , 2004 Hello again If I have the full name (but no service number) of an immediate post-war US sailor and know the year of his enlistment, do I stand any chance at all of getting his records from St Louis? Is it worth just sending them an unsolicited letter and hoping for the best or is it a virtual !00% cert. that they will just bin any such correspondence? I'd be grateful for any advice. Many thanks Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 19 June , 2004 Share Posted 19 June , 2004 Hi Richard, I have some service papers from New Jersey both Navy and Army (No Submariners though) and some from NY (Army only). New Jersey records will list the ships and bases served. If you are interested in them for comparison purposes I'd be happy to photocopy them for you and mail them over. Just e-mail me an address. Take care, Neil Neil Does the information held by New Jersey go into much detail? From Central Records I have obtained the "Missing Aircraft Report" and burial details for a distant relative who was in the USAAC, and killed in 1943. His home State was New Jersey. Also, would New York, as opposed to Central Records, have much information on a New Yorker killed in Viet Nam in 1968? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 19 June , 2004 Share Posted 19 June , 2004 Richard it is worth a shot, they come thru once in a while. Let me take a look & see if they have request form on line, if so you can print, at least will give address. Yes you can print form 180 & fax or mail 9700 Page St Louis Mo. 63132, search for National Military Personnel Records Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDick Posted 19 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 19 June , 2004 Thanks Paul, I'll send them a request via post and, if I hear anything back from them in the near future I'll post it on the thread. Thanks again, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 19 June , 2004 Share Posted 19 June , 2004 Hi Richard, I have some service papers from New Jersey both Navy and Army (No Submariners though) and some from NY (Army only). New Jersey records will list the ships and bases served. If you are interested in them for comparison purposes I'd be happy to photocopy them for you and mail them over. Just e-mail me an address. Take care, Neil Neil Does the information held by New Jersey go into much detail? From Central Records I have obtained the "Missing Aircraft Report" and burial details for a distant relative who was in the USAAC, and killed in 1943. His home State was New Jersey. Also, would New York, as opposed to Central Records, have much information on a New Yorker killed in Viet Nam in 1968? Beppo, My apologies, I just saw this today. For World War II information your best bet is to go through the St. Louis Address Paul provides (which is what you've done) and for Vietnam I would reccomend: Department of the Army US Total Army personnel Command Alexandria VA 22332-0404 I got this address from a recent Orders and Medals Society of America article and have never used it myself. Through them you can obtain an individual Deceased Personnel File which apparently has rather graphic details of the casualty. Again this is second hand and not from my own experience but OMSA hasn't let me down yet. Neither NJ or NY kept records for their WW II servicemen. If you know where in NJ your relative was from I can try to contact the local historical society or newspaper for you. Again sorry for the delay. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 19 June , 2004 Share Posted 19 June , 2004 Beppo, My apologies, I just saw this today. For World War II information your best bet is to go through the St. Louis Address Paul provides (which is what you've done) and for Vietnam I would reccomend: Department of the Army US Total Army personnel Command Alexandria VA 22332-0404 I got this address from a recent Orders and Medals Society of America article and have never used it myself. Through them you can obtain an individual Deceased Personnel File which apparently has rather graphic details of the casualty. Again this is second hand and not from my own experience but OMSA hasn't let me down yet. Neither NJ or NY kept records for their WW II servicemen. If you know where in NJ your relative was from I can try to contact the local historical society or newspaper for you. Again sorry for the delay. Neil Thanks for the reply Neil. I will email you with more details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now