BeppoSapone Posted 1 June , 2004 Share Posted 1 June , 2004 Anyone familiar with Birkenhead? My great uncle, Joe Bull was in 1/4 Cheshires, and was from the town. From his CWGC entry I see that the family lived at 251 Brook Street, Birkenhead. Brook Street is still there, but is no 251? I dont want to travel all the way to Birkenhead and find that the site of the house is now a DIY Superstore! Map: http://uk8.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?Gri...map=&scale=5000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 2 June , 2004 Share Posted 2 June , 2004 Beppo I have a friend who lives over the water. I'l ask him if he can check, perhaps over the weekend. Watch this space. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 2 June , 2004 Share Posted 2 June , 2004 Beppo Actually, I didn't need to ask. A quick visit to the Capscan site http://www.capscan.co.uk/cgi-bin/mcdquery.exe shows that 251 doesn't exist any more. There just seem to be some random numbers. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 2 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2004 Beppo I have a friend who lives over the water. I'l ask him if he can check, perhaps over the weekend. Watch this space. Stephen Very many thanks Stephen, will do. Uncle Joe is not on the Birkenhead War Memorial, so I hope his home is still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 2 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2004 Beppo Actually, I didn't need to ask. A quick visit to the Capscan site http://www.capscan.co.uk/cgi-bin/mcdquery.exe shows that 251 doesn't exist any more. There just seem to be some random numbers. Stephen Stephen Looks as if we were writing at the same time. Thanks for the site details, which I will now study. If the house is no longer there, it's "sods law", but saved me a wasted trip. Thanks for your help. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 2 June , 2004 Share Posted 2 June , 2004 Tony Not sure if you already have this, but here's your man and family in 1901 census Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 2 June , 2004 Share Posted 2 June , 2004 Dear Beppo, Brook Street was a long east-west street, part of the strict grid pattern that characterised the 19th century growth of Birkenhead. However, since changes in the road layout, particularly connected with the tunnel, B Street is now bisected, the shorter stretch to the east being known as East Brook Street - no 251 may have been there. If you ever get to look at OS maps of say, the 1930s, they will often have house numbers on them. As you will undoubtedly have seen on the mother site, 1/4 Chesh was formed in Aug 1914. The original 4th Chesh was created in 1908 but had its origins in 1859. It HQ was the Drill Hall on the south side of Grange Road West (south-west of Brook St), just east of the junction with Slatey Road. It is now a Sports Centre. In late 1914 1/4th was sent off to dig trenches in Suffolk, then they moved around to Cambridge, Royston and Bedford. there is a general history: JH McGuiness, The first hunded years: The story of the 4th Battalion, the Cheshire Regiment 1859-1959. WH Evans, Chester, 1959. I think the Cheshire Regt Museum has more details (I'm trying to find out too) Yes, a great uncle of mine (also Birkenhead born) was in E Coy, 1/4th Btn, but although his letters do mention some comrades, I'm afraid there is no mention of your great uncle. best wishes Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 2 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2004 Tony Not sure if you already have this, but here's your man and family in 1901 census Stephen Hi Stephen Thanks for being so kind as to post the entry for my grandmother's family from the 1901 census. That is certainly them, although my great grandfather was being "economical with the truth" about his age, unless he had joined the army, on adult service, at the age of 8! I have done very little work on this family, nothing for at least 10 years. I have recently moved to within striking distance of Birkenhead and thought I might finally do some work on the Bulls. As you know the 1901 census was not available before 2001 so, thanks to your help, I have learned of a "new" great uncle from their census entry - William G Bull, (junior). Graham Maddocks did tell me that he had found a William G Bull in the army in 1918, iirc in the "Absent Voters" lists. We had assumed that it was William G Bull, the father, who had 'lowered' his age to get into the army. FYI my grandmother was Sarah Bull, although her name is very hard to read on the census form. She was born in 1898 and married soon after WW1. She lived the rest of her life in London, Kent, Sussex and Hampshire. I knew George Bull, who moved to Hampshire when he retired, and I met both "Lizzie" and "Lottie" when they came south on visits. John Bull died young, in the late 20s or early 30s. Thanks again for your help on this matter. Regards Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 2 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2004 Dear Beppo, Brook Street was a long east-west street, part of the strict grid pattern that characterised the 19th century growth of Birkenhead. However, since changes in the road layout, particularly connected with the tunnel, B Street is now bisected, the shorter stretch to the east being known as East Brook Street - no 251 may have been there. If you ever get to look at OS maps of say, the 1930s, they will often have house numbers on them. As you will undoubtedly have seen on the mother site, 1/4 Chesh was formed in Aug 1914. The original 4th Chesh was created in 1908 but had its origins in 1859. It HQ was the Drill Hall on the south side of Grange Road West (south-west of Brook St), just east of the junction with Slatey Road. It is now a Sports Centre. In late 1914 1/4th was sent off to dig trenches in Suffolk, then they moved around to Cambridge, Royston and Bedford. there is a general history: JH McGuiness, The first hunded years: The story of the 4th Battalion, the Cheshire Regiment 1859-1959. WH Evans, Chester, 1959. I think the Cheshire Regt Museum has more details (I'm trying to find out too) Yes, a great uncle of mine (also Birkenhead born) was in E Coy, 1/4th Btn, but although his letters do mention some comrades, I'm afraid there is no mention of your great uncle. best wishes Julian Julian Thanks for your reply to my query. I have just spent 10 or 15 minutes writing aa detailed reply, but have lost it! I am too tired to do it again now, but will write it all out again tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 3 June , 2004 Share Posted 3 June , 2004 Tony This image isn't quite as clear, but shows the family in the 1891 census at a different address Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 3 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 3 June , 2004 Tony This image isn't quite as clear, but shows the family in the 1891 census at a different address Stephen Stephen Thanks for that. I am afraid that I can't open it. I am not a "techy". Is it a problem my end or is there something wrong with the file you sent? Cheers Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 3 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 3 June , 2004 Dear Beppo, Brook Street was a long east-west street, part of the strict grid pattern that characterised the 19th century growth of Birkenhead. However, since changes in the road layout, particularly connected with the tunnel, B Street is now bisected, the shorter stretch to the east being known as East Brook Street - no 251 may have been there. If you ever get to look at OS maps of say, the 1930s, they will often have house numbers on them. As you will undoubtedly have seen on the mother site, 1/4 Chesh was formed in Aug 1914. The original 4th Chesh was created in 1908 but had its origins in 1859. It HQ was the Drill Hall on the south side of Grange Road West (south-west of Brook St), just east of the junction with Slatey Road. It is now a Sports Centre. In late 1914 1/4th was sent off to dig trenches in Suffolk, then they moved around to Cambridge, Royston and Bedford. there is a general history: JH McGuiness, The first hunded years: The story of the 4th Battalion, the Cheshire Regiment 1859-1959. WH Evans, Chester, 1959. I think the Cheshire Regt Museum has more details (I'm trying to find out too) Yes, a great uncle of mine (also Birkenhead born) was in E Coy, 1/4th Btn, but although his letters do mention some comrades, I'm afraid there is no mention of your great uncle. best wishes Julian Julian As promised I will try again with a reply to your post. Looking at the site that Stephen posted I see that Brook Street finishes at no. 143 on that side of the road. It seems as if the site of no. 151 must be under the new road you mention. The rest of this letter is from memory. Not sure if it will be 100% accurate, but I can always look up exact details when I unpack the letters and papers relating to Joe Bull. Joe was only in 1/4th Cheshires for the last few months of his life. He had been out to Suvla in 1915 with another Cheshire Bn and then posted to the King's Liverpool. He was only posted to 1/4th Cheshires around the time that the "new" 34th Division was formed. I have his regimental numbers, dates etc in the papers I have yet to find. According to the CWGC Joe was in "H" Company of the 1/4th. However, Graham Maddox told me that there was no "H" Company in the Battalion and Joe was probably in "HQ" Company. This would fit as "HQ" Company came under heavy shell fire around "H. Hour" on the morning of 14 October 1918, and those killed early in the attack are buried at Hooge Crater Cemetery, as is Joe. Did you know that the forms filled in by relatives in order to make the Birkenhead War Memorial are available? Some of the men mentioned in your great uncles letters will probably be included. My great grandparents never returned the paperwork and Joe Bull is not on the memorial. The fighting on and after 14 October 1918 caused liberation of the home village of a Frenchman called Georges Rachaine. Georges has written a short history of this action, only problem with it is that it is in French. Joe Bulls photo is in this book. It is a photo of her brother, taken in 1918, that my grandmother had by her bed until she died in the late 1980s. Regards Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 7 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 7 June , 2004 Graham Maddocks did tell me that he had found a William G Bull in the army in 1918, iirc in the "Absent Voters" lists. We had assumed that it was William G Bull, the father, who had 'lowered' his age to get into the army. Over the weekend I had a look through my papers. I found the letter from Graham Maddocks, which is from April 1995. He said that, besides Joe Bull, who was killed, the following are listed for 251 Brook Street: 359600 Private George Bull, 806th Company, Labour Corps 844816 Fireman John Bull, HMS Duke of Clarence, Royal Navy 24776 Driver William Goodman Bull, 25th (AT) Company, Royal Engineers Thanks to Steven I now know that all three were my great uncles, rather than two great uncles and a great grandfather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now