AIF Posted 3 July , 2010 Share Posted 3 July , 2010 Over the years I have only seen a handful of photographs showing WW I Australian and Canadian Battalion colours. OLD COLOURS NEVER DIE is the only book published on WW I flags (Canadad) that I know of. Are there any photographs showing WW I British Battalion colours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 5 July , 2010 Share Posted 5 July , 2010 As far as I'm there are no specific books dedicated to British Regimental Colours, especially relating to WWI and this is because only regular battalions of regiments possessed Colours(apart from Rifle units) up until 1914. At the end of the War all service battalions received a single plain Union Colour, but the honours, which were later to be displayed on them, weren't applied until much later and even then all the Colours would bear the same WWI honours as displayed by the regular battalions. Again the exception would be Rifle regiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 5 July , 2010 Share Posted 5 July , 2010 As far as I'm there are no specific books dedicated to British Regimental Colours, especially relating to WWI and this is because only regular battalions of regiments possessed Colours(apart from Rifle units) Graham - Didn't TF Battalions have colours too? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 5 July , 2010 Share Posted 5 July , 2010 As far as I'm there are no specific books dedicated to British Regimental Colours, especially relating to WWI Ian Sumner pointed me in the direction of this one sometime last year...... Colours of British Regiments (v. 2) Units Raised During World War I James Douglas Geddes ISBN: 9780953785803 Format: Hardback Publisher: James Douglas Geddes No idea as to it's availability but I'm currently trying to get it through inter-library loan. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIF Posted 5 July , 2010 Author Share Posted 5 July , 2010 Thanks for the response gentlemen. Does anyone have photographs in their collections which show WW I flags? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 5 July , 2010 Share Posted 5 July , 2010 Graham - Didn't TF Battalions have colours too? Chris Chris, I agree TF Battalions had Colours,from the 8th Royal Scots War Diary. 17th December 1918-Colours handed back to the Battalion at Haddington. 20th December 1918-Colours arrive from home. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 5 July , 2010 Share Posted 5 July , 2010 Oooops - Yes gents the TF had colours too. I'm not certain about the Special & Extra Reserve Battalions, but the old Militia Battalions did have Colours, but whether or not they were passed into the care of the new battalions I couldn't say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 5 July , 2010 Share Posted 5 July , 2010 This is a photo of units receiving their Colours at the end of the war and as can be seen the Union Colour was plain. From the foreground you have the Colours of the 18th Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers, then 23rd Bn, NF, followed by the 25th Bn, NF and then 14th Bn, H.L.I., all of whom were serving with 116th Bde at the time. As for the remaining units I'm unsure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 5 July , 2010 Share Posted 5 July , 2010 It also appears that some of the Special Reserve Battalions may also have received new Colours. The 3rd(S.R.)Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers received their new Colours in 1909 at Alnwick, which replaced the old Militia ones. Again no honours appear emblazoned on either Union or Regimental Colour, which appear plain unlike those of the regular battalions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 5 July , 2010 Share Posted 5 July , 2010 Lone Pine, Please find below a picture of the 9th (Highland) Bn The Royal Scots' colour party in 1910. It looks like the first outing of the King's and Regimental colours. I previously posted this photo here: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...ndy+Ninth\ Aye Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIF Posted 5 July , 2010 Author Share Posted 5 July , 2010 Those are some great photographs Tom and Graham. Thanks for sharing them. Battalion colours were used as unit identifiers and Canadian Corps Standing Orders were very specific about ensuring that these flags were out of sight of the enemy. Canadian battalions, post-1917, usually used their Distinguishing/Formation Patch on the flag. Did British units do this as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 5 July , 2010 Share Posted 5 July , 2010 Oooops - Yes gents the TF had colours too. I'm not certain about the Special & Extra Reserve Battalions, but the old Militia Battalions did have Colours, but whether or not they were passed into the care of the new battalions I couldn't say. Phew - otherwise I was going to be struggling to explain the annotation on this...from a pre war camp! Thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 5 July , 2010 Share Posted 5 July , 2010 At the end of the War all service battalions received a single plain Union Colour Whilst the above is, without doubt, correct, the issue of the plain Union Flag wasn't restricted to service battalions. ACI 444 of 1919 stated “His Majesty the King has been graciously pleased to approve of the presentation of a silk Union Flag to each Service, Young Soldier, Graduated and Garrison Battalion of the Regular Army, to each Second and Third Line Territorial Force Battalion, to each T. F. unit which has served as infantry, and which under its normal organization is not entitled to a guidon or colours, and to each Battalion of Oversea Troops, Rifle Battalions excepted, which has served abroad during the War" Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 5 July , 2010 Share Posted 5 July , 2010 Just as an aside: the pictures posted here demonstrate the effect of orthochromatic film (then most frequently used) quite well, something a few of us played about with HERE - with the red on the union flag appearing far darker than the dark blue. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 6 July , 2010 Share Posted 6 July , 2010 Whilst the above is, without doubt, correct, the issue of the plain Union Flag wasn't restricted to service battalions. ACI 444 of 1919 stated “His Majesty the King has been graciously pleased to approve of the presentation of a silk Union Flag to each Service, Young Soldier, Graduated and Garrison Battalion of the Regular Army, to each Second and Third Line Territorial Force Battalion, to each T. F. unit which has served as infantry, and which under its normal organization is not entitled to a guidon or colours, and to each Battalion of Oversea Troops, Rifle Battalions excepted, which has served abroad during the War" Steve Very interesting Steve, but was the ACI fully adhered too? The reason I ask is because I have at home a full list of all the NF Union Colours and their locations, but am sure none of the "Home Service" units are represented, except those belonging Garrison Battalions which served abroad. I'm not even certain if the 2/7th Bn, NF received a Union Colour for serving in Egypt, but as I haven't got my list here so can't be certain. Also presented, but not mentioned in the above ACI were the Union Colours of the Battalions of the Royal Naval Division, a couple of which used to reside in Newcastle Cathedral, sadly though I believe these disappeared during a renovation some years ago. Lone Pine - I think you'll fnd that all British Regimental Colours were deposited for safe keeping in local Parish Churches or Cathedrals and never taken overseas. If I remember correctly Colours never again saw active service after disasters during the Afghan & Zulu Wars in which some Colours were lost. The "Flags" which your Canadian Standing Orders may be refering to, are possibly Regimental Battalion/Company Flags which are more often seen in camp locations and not Colours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 6 July , 2010 Share Posted 6 July , 2010 Lone-Pine - Regimental Flags as opposed to Regimental Colours which did proceed overseas with Battalions and to which your Canadian Standing Orders refers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted 6 July , 2010 Share Posted 6 July , 2010 Battle honours on the colours started me wondering if the Drum Majors sash displayed the same battle honours as on the colours. Surely too many on the colours of many regiments to display them all on the sash. Any one any info? Graham, do you by any chance have a list of the where abouts of RNFs old sashes also? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 6 July , 2010 Share Posted 6 July , 2010 Very interesting Steve, but was the ACI fully adhered too? The reason I ask is because I have at home a full list of all the NF Union Colours and their locations, but am sure none of the "Home Service" units are represented, except those belonging Garrison Battalions which served abroad. I'm not even certain if the 2/7th Bn, NF received a Union Colour for serving in Egypt, but as I haven't got my list here so can't be certain. Graham I read the ACI that only those units that had served abroad were issued with Union Flags, this would obviously explain the lack of Flags to "Home Service" units. I've noted that 597 battalions qualified for one of these flags and that 578 received them but I'm not sure of the source of that statement, it may be the book I referred to in an earlier post. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robins2 Posted 7 July , 2010 Share Posted 7 July , 2010 Over the years I have only seen a handful of photographs showing WW I Australian and Canadian Battalion colours. OLD COLOURS NEVER DIE is the only book published on WW I flags (Canadad) that I know of. Are there any photographs showing WW I British Battalion colours? attached replica of the Lord Strathcona Horse Royal Canadian Colors, showing all the Regiments Battle Honors regards Bob R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 7 July , 2010 Share Posted 7 July , 2010 Battle honours on the colours started me wondering if the Drum Majors sash displayed the same battle honours as on the colours. Surely too many on the colours of many regiments to display them all on the sash. Any one any info? Graham, do you by any chance have a list of the where abouts of RNFs old sashes also? Alan Hi Alan - I would have thought the Drum Major's sashes would have been returned to storage, if not turned into presentation pieces. To be honest I'm not sure what the regulations were as regards these sashes, but suspect that like Colours they were renewed or reworked every so many years. There would also be a question of 'expense' i.e. would they, like the Colours be renewed at "public" expense, or be paid for at Regimental expense?? They certainly are beautiful items in their own right, but I've seen very few on my visits to Museums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyneside Chinaman Posted 7 July , 2010 Share Posted 7 July , 2010 Two to go with Graham's first photo 1 The parade forms up 2 The Colours rejoin the escort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyneside Chinaman Posted 7 July , 2010 Share Posted 7 July , 2010 Another this time 4th Cheshire Regiment from Birkenhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulsterlad2 Posted 7 July , 2010 Share Posted 7 July , 2010 Guys, could I ask a quick something. What is meant to happen to laid up colours? Are they supposed to be left to fade away or be preserved behind a glass frame etc? The reason I ask is there are good examples of both types hanging in Cathedrals in N.Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyneside Chinaman Posted 7 July , 2010 Share Posted 7 July , 2010 Hello again Here is the King's Colour of the 4th Tyneside Irish before it was restored. It is now laid up in a sealed glass frame in St Mary's RC Cathederal in Newcastle upon Tyne having been chucked in a skip when the Town Hall was pulled down it was rescued and taken to Beamish Museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyneside Chinaman Posted 7 July , 2010 Share Posted 7 July , 2010 The Colour of the 2nd Tyneside Irish is carried by Captain & QM Francis Treanor on its way to be laid up in St Mary's June 1919 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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