21st Battalion King's Royal Rifle Corps - the original Yeomen

[JohnK]

On 17/03/2017 at 10:53, MBrockway said:

I'm afraid Mike's original was a bit fuzzy, as he does not have access to a scanner, so this is the best I can do while we sort out how to get a good scan.  Nevertheless it's still a possible target for image poachers, so I've added a watermark making its origins very unambiguous!

Unfortunately very hard to make out faces, but this can act as a placeholder to show Pals the potential of the picture.

 

C/12194 Rfn Fred MAW is 14th from the right hand end of the row at the front sitting cross-legged.

 

Mark

 

@MBrockway Just wondering if you ever manged to get a clearer scan of that image of 'A' Company?  I am hopeful my Gt Uncle Alf Sleightholme is among them.  His photo is on my initial post on page 26. Apologies for dragging this topic up again but I recently visited the Hampshire Record Office in Winchester to see if I could find an original of  the 'A' Company photo, no luck as others have said on here already it's missing, or else I didn't ask for the right records. 

Edited 14 April , 2023 by JohnK

[MBrockway]

13 hours ago, JohnK said:

@MBrockway Just wondering if you ever managed to get a clearer scan of that image of 'A' Company?  I am hopeful my Gt Uncle Alf Sleightholme is among them.  His photo is on my initial post on page 26. Apologies for dragging this topic up again but I recently visited the Hampshire Record Office in Winchester to see if I could find an original of  the 'A' Company photo, no luck as others have said on here already it's missing, or else I didn't ask for the right records. 

Sorry to disappoint John, but the best version I got from Mike was what I posted.  The full image was only 1700x2338 pixels and taken at 200dpi resolution.

Mark

[JohnK]

Thanks Mark, at least I know. Next I'll contact the KRRC Association in case they can help and also go back to Winchester to look at more photos from the Yeoman Rifle's Archives. I feel sooner or later I'm going to find a clear image and find my Gt Uncle. If so I'll post it on here (copyright permitting).

[JohnK]

Whilst at the Hampshire Records Office I found a very interesting first hand account from Lance Corporal Thomas Potter who was in the 21st KRRC 'B' Coy. I don't think he has been mentioned before on this thread. It's an 11 page series of vivid memories typed up by his son, unfortunately undated.

A summary of its content:

Training at Helmsley, billeted at the Black Swan, arrival at Barossa Barracks, Aldershot, marching to Ash Ranges, last night at Aldershot with Sgt Huffington, boarding ship at Southampton, to Le Havre, rest camp at Outtersteen, then to "Plugstreet", Black Watch "These were an exceptionally fine body of men, who welcomed us, and treated us like honoured guests. It is a pity the Army authorities hadn't the foresight to provide us with an interpreter ...".

He specialised as a signaller.

'B' Coy first casualty: Rifleman Attenborough No 7 Platoon - shell shock.

Somme - Deville Wood, Over the Top, Captain Watson wounded, in wake of the tanks.

Thomas was wounded at Flers and his story ends with this "It was on this day, September 15 1916, that I closed my all too short spell with the 21st KRRC, and in latter days, with other units, regretted this severance from the old Battalion. For never did I come across such men as I had associated with, in the Yeoman Rifles"

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the full manuscript here, message me if you are interested.

I have failed trying to find his service number/record.

 

John

[GWF1967]

9 hours ago, JohnK said:

I have failed trying to find his service number/record.

 

John

C/12535 is a good candidate. 

[JohnK]

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

C/12535 is a good candidate. 

Thanks yes I found that one on Medal Card 372/16/63470 and it is a Yeoman Rifles sequence, but then the trail ends. I wonder as he went to a new regiment if he got another service number?

[MBrockway]

2 hours ago, JohnK said:

Thanks yes I found that one on Medal Card 372/16/63470 and it is a Yeoman Rifles sequence, but then the trail ends. I wonder as he went to a new regiment if he got another service number?

Here's the BWM&VM roll entry for C/12535 Rfn Thomas POTTER ...

All service was with 21/KRRC, which is at odds with the typescript you have found at Winchester.

He appears on one of the KRRC's Supplementary Rolls, not in the main 21/KRRC run.  Although the roll page on which he's listed gives no further clues, the section immediately before it covers riflemen whose medal issue was reinstated under ACI 75 of 1921 after earlier having had their medals forfeited.

C/12535 is the only Thomas Potter with a 'C' prefix I have in my database.  I'll check the all other Thomas Potters for service with 21/KRRC and report back.

There's no mention of any Thomas Potter in Dennis's book.

 

Mark

[MBrockway]

I've now eliminated all the other KRRC Thomas Potters - none served in 21/KRRC.

It looks therefore like C/12535 Thomas Potter is our man.

John - is there anything in the Cpl Potter's account that clarifies what he did after being wounded at Flers?

Certainly as a specialist signaller, he would have been useful in any number of roles in the Lines of Communication areas and might have remained on the strength of 21/KRRC even if he were not physically present with the battalion.

When KRRC Regular battalions were in India in peacetime, it was common for signallers and clerks to serve distantly from their parent battalion.

This might also explain why Potter appears on the KRRC Supplementary Roll outwith the main 21/KRRC sequence.

Mark

[JohnK]

Thanks Mark, good work! Unfortunately there is nothing in the account about what happened to him after being wounded, just the mysterious sentence: "It was on this day, September 15 1916, that I closed my all too short spell with the 21st KRRC, and in latter days, with other units ..."

The other thing that is at odds, he describes himself as a Lance Corporal whereas on the roll entry he is a Private.

I'll send you the manuscript in a tick.

[GWF1967]

19 minutes ago, JohnK said:

 

The other thing that is at odds, he describes himself as a Lance Corporal whereas on the roll entry he is a Private.

I'll send you the manuscript in a tick.

At the time, Lance Corporal was an appointment, rather than a substantive rank. 

[JohnK]

Thanks GWF1967 that would make sense.

[mrfrank]

On 31/01/2011 at 14:03, Liz in Eastbourne said:

This was described as a 'loft find' and purchased by yours truly for the princely sum of 99p & received this week. Taken on eve of departure for France in May 1916 and confirms Lt Richard Charles Spencer Baxter was Number 8 Platoon Commander, B Company. 

I've done a quick scan of the Medal Rolls and CWGC, full names/service numbers of those identified to follow shortly.

Cheers, 

Mike

 

 

On 31/01/2011 at 14:03, Liz in Eastbourne said:

Temporary Second Lieutenant Richard Charles Spencer Baxter (later Staff Captain)

Wounded at Flers 15 September 1916

Richard Baxter is standing on the right (ie his left) of Monty Cole in the middle of the group photograph.

He was born in Southall, Middlesex in December 1889, son of Annie (born in Brixton) and Richard Wakeham Baxter (born in Southall).

His father was an Export Merchant on the census records of 1891 and 1901, and Estate Developer in 1911.

I do not know which was Baxter's company or what his role in the battalion was. He is not mentioned by Eden or Dennis. He was clearly competent as he was promoted to Lieutenant from the time of the battalion's embarkation for France.

 

 

Edited 9 August by mrfrank

[mrfrank]

NCOs and Riflemen featured in the image. Those who fell in red. If anyone has futher information or corrections to what I have, then please feel free to add and would be much appreciated.

Mike

 

Sgts

Dunn, Prob George H C/12237

Huddlestone , William C/12438

Cpl

Beard, Frederick George C/12352

 

L/Cpls

Goldberg, Herbert C/12695

Stones, George R C/12629 Sgt, Commissioned 27Nov17

Swift, Arthur Clifford C/12632 Commissioned 26May17 Royal Garrison Artillery

 

Riflemen

Bone, Herbert W C/12843

Burton, Joseph C/12709

Denison, Thomas W C/12823

Fawcett, John C/12711 Commissioned 16Feb18 Yorkshire Regiment. Father’s address Gt Smeaton, Northallerton.

Forth, Harold C/12649

Foster, Thomas H C/12362

Gill, Tom Edward C/12986

Hardwick, Charles W C/12754

Hebbron, Robert C/12768 MGC 143786

Heeley, Ernest L C/12780

Hendall, W

Johnson, F Possibly C/12452?

Jones, probably Alfred C/12696

Lazenby, Maurice C/12766

Leadbeater, Percy C/12821 Commissioned 26Feb18 East Yorkshire Regiment. MIC – Halifax address.

Lloyd, Wilfred C/12706 Enlisted 04Dec15, Discharged 11Oct16 Wounded. SWB.

Miller, FG

Moore, D

Myers, William H C/12824 MGC 143789

Pipes, John C/12161

Ratcliffe, J

Rayson, Richard B C/12698

Rex, Basil C/12757 Enlisted 06Dec15. Later Pte 54704 Devonshire Regt. Discharged 12Apr17 Wounded.

Shaw, E

Slack, Victor NB C/12633 Commissioned 26Mar18 Lancashire Fusiliers

Smith, W possibly Walter Smith C/12938 Commissioned 26Mar18, MM winner

Stainthorpe, Ernest C/12940 Labour Corps 457107

Sugden, Tom C/12659

Sumpton, Jack L C/12608 Enlisted 27Nov15,  Discharged 12Sep18.

Teale, John H C/12618 Enlisted 29Nov15,  Discharged 20Nov17

Tebb, Harry Raymond 13/30242 Commissioned RFA

Thompson, William E C/12692

Twinn, Charles T C/12630 Labour Corps 434932

Vickers, Cyril C/12767

Wales, J [Probably error and is George Wales C/12606]

Williams, FS C/12822

Wilson, James S C/12714 Royal Engineers 358875

Winfield, J [Probably error and is I Winfield C/12071]

Wrathall, Clifford C/12648

 

Edited 9 August by mrfrank

[MBrockway]

Rfn W. Hendall is almost certainly Rfn Walter KENDALL, C/12425.

I could not find a service, nor pension record for him, but there is a hospital admission to 139 Field Ambulance of 30 Jan 1917 for 'Defective vision' where his service is given as 1 year and 3 months and time with the BEF as 9 months.  These durations would give approx date of enlistment as Oct 1915 and embarkation as Apr/May 1916.  He's listed as 'B' Coy, 21/KRRC.

The KRRC BW&VM roll shows only service in 21/KRRC.

Mark

 

 

 

[mrfrank]

9 hours ago, MBrockway said:

Rfn W. Hendall is almost certainly Rfn Walter KENDALL, C/12425.

I could not find a service, nor pension record for him, but there is a hospital admission to 139 Field Ambulance of 30 Jan 1917 for 'Defective vision' where his service is given as 1 year and 3 months and time with the BEF as 9 months.  These durations would give approx date of enlistment as Oct 1915 and embarkation as Apr/May 1916.  He's listed as 'B' Coy, 21/KRRC.

The KRRC BW&VM roll shows only service in 21/KRRC.

Mark

 

 

 

Thank you Mark, great find & much appreciated.

Mike 

[MBrockway]

Rfn F.G. Miller is most likely Rfn Frank Jackson MILLER, C/12631.

He was born on 11 Oct 1891 at Wales, West Yorkshire, (about midway between Sheffield and Worksop).  He married Alice ILLSLEY, the marriage registered in Q4 1913 at Worksop RD. 

According to his MIC, he went out in Apr 1916, which is before 21/KRRC's embarkation on 05 May, before in fact any of 41st Division, but all other evidence points to his still being in the battalion, so this may be an error - the embarkation date on MICs was primarily there to record eligibility for the 1914 and 1914-15 Star medals, which were clearly no longer relevant by May 1916.  He also entered theatre as a Lance Sergeant.

Awarded the Military Medal on 09 Dec 1916.  His MM MIC gives battalion as 21/KRRC, but the LG entry merely gives regiment.  LG Issue 29854, 09 Dec 1916, p.12049 - here

According to Williamson, "this Gazette is predominantly for Somme awards won between September and October, 1916 (9.9.16 to 12.10.16) and include Flers-Courcelette, High Wood, Leuze Wood, Le Transloy, Morval etc."

I've not found any references in the war diaries to confirm this, nor could I find any specific announcements in Routine Orders at Corps or Army level.  A 15 Sep 1916 Flers MM does seem highly likely though.

Transferred to the Machine Gun Corps and renumbered 104410, though his C/ prefix KRRC number also seems to have continued in use.

I have so far failed to find any further detail on this move.  One assumes he was in 21/KRRC's battalion MG Section and was transferred into the MGC when the Brigade MG companies were formed, but I was not able to lock this down - the transfer may equally well have happened when he was selected for officer training (see next item).

Posted to No 2 Coy, No 1 Machine Gun Corps Officer Cadet Battalion at Bisley.

Commissioned as 2/Lt in MGC on 26 Jul 1917 and posted to MGC (Infantry), Group "C", Clipstone Camp, Mansfield, to report there on 09 Aug 1917.

[Incidentally, this batch of MGC officer cadet commissions also included L/Sgt Frederick George BEARD, C/12352, MGC (but formerly 21/KRRC), seen in the photo as a Corporal]

Miller's commission - LG Issue 30221, 08 Aug 1917, p.8096

Beard's commission - LG Issue 30221, 08 Aug 1917, p.8095 (also includes the MGC section heading)

I have not attempted to trace his MGC career after he went to Clipstone Camp.  In the Dec 1919 Monthly Army List, he is listed as an Education Officer in the Machine Gun Corps.  This would have been an important role in the demobilising army.

There's a newspaper report of his daughter's marriage on Sat 27 Nov 1937 where he is described as Headmaster of Treeton Council Schools and he was still holding this post at the 1939 National Register.  Treeton is just to the E of Sheffield.  On the 1911 Census he is attending training college living in a boarding house in Sheffield, West Yorks, so presumably this was teacher training and education was his vocation in civvy street.

His campaign medal MIC has the correspondence address of High Flatts, Denby Dale, near Huddersfield.  This is about 15 miles NW of Sheffield.  This would be the address used in correspondence after he, by now an officer, applied for his medals in the early 1920s.

He died on 01 October 1969.  He was then residing at Dinnington, West Yorks, which is about 12 miles E of Sheffield.  His death is registered in Q4 1969 in Rother Valley RD.  This RD includes Wales, Treeton and Dinnington.

Cheers,

Mark

[MBrockway]

Dennis, in A Kitchener Man's Bit, mentions a Frank 'Dusty' Miller, who seems to be a very strong match for C/12631 Frank Jackson MILLER.

Lying in rudimentary trench scrapes ahead of GIRD TRENCH on the late afternoon of Friday 07 Oct 1916, and needing reinforcements ahead of the expected German counter-attack, and "after Captain Brooksbank, [OC 'B' Coy] with 'B' Company had sent back Corporal Frank (Dusty) Miller twice to ask for reinforcements, some 'A' Company men were sent to him. ... Miller, the runner was again sent back with an urgent message, one that really should not have been necessary <...> a battery of our eighteen pounders was to move forward as we did and cover us when we had reached our new positions.  From their new gun sites their shell fell short - on us! <...> Of course, the message got through and the offending batteries obliged by letting Jerry have some medicine."

Gerald Dennis A Kitchener Man's Bit (Helion, 2016), pp.92-93

Note that Miller seems here to be in 'B' Coy.

In the book's Appendix of people mentioned, compiled by Michael Hickes, there is: "MILLER, Frank (Cpl. Dusty) - his home area was Dinnington, Sheffield" [Ibid., p.243]

Dennis reports the gallantry awards: " ... for the October 7th [1916] stunt ... we received three Military Crosses and ten Military Medals" [Ibid., p.98] and "For special work done on September 15th [1916], the battalion was awarded three Military Crosses and sixteen Military Medals.  Three of the latter went to runners, very well deserved for they did not pause to take shelter in a shell hole when sent with messages when the telephones were not in working order, they went straight through the shells and bullets without stopping." [Ibid., p.84]

There's a fair chance that 'Corporal Frank 'Dusty' Miller' was one of the 07 Oct MMs, or even a 15 Sep Flers MM, particularly if he had been then a runner again.

Above I state Sgt Frank Jackson MILLER, C/12631, was a Sergeant on entry into theatre.  I based this on his MIC and on the MGC Other Ranks BW&VM roll, but on reflection I think I am wrong: since he had no Star entitlement, the rank here may be the highest rank he reached before being commissioned, not his rank on entry into theatre and he was in fact a Corporal in mid October 1916 at Gird Trench.  Williamson's discussion of ranks shown on MICs [Great War Medal Collector's Companion (2011), p.195] seems to support this where the MIC only covers BWM and Victory Medals

Cheers,

Mark

[mrfrank]

Thanks again Mark, really helpful and some great information there.

One thing did puzzle me when looking up the names first time around and that concerned L/Cpl TW Denison. CWGC has him killed in action on 05Oct16 and commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial.

However, (and I'm sure there's an explanation for it), there's an accompanying 'Concentration' return dated Aug19 that shows his marked grave having been found with a reburial in The Guards Cemetery, Les Boeufs. I assume he can't have a marked grave at Les Boeufs?

[MBrockway]

10 hours ago, mrfrank said:

Thanks again Mark, really helpful and some great information there.

One thing did puzzle me when looking up the names first time around and that concerned L/Cpl TW Denison. CWGC has him killed in action on 05Oct16 and commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial.

However, (and I'm sure there's an explanation for it), there's an accompanying 'Concentration' return dated Aug19 that shows his marked grave having been found with a reburial in The Guards Cemetery, Les Boeufs. I assume he can't have a marked grave at Les Boeufs?

Denison does not have a marked grave at the Guards' Cemetery, Lesboeufs, nor do any of the other nine 21/KRRC riflemen listed on the concentration report.

The sequence of events seems to have been that these ten men were buried in a communal grave in 1916.

This was at trench map reference 57c.T.1.c.2.8, just south of the village of Flers - see map below.

 

 

Dennis mentions burial details from 41st Division searching for bodies around Flers on Wed 04 Oct, and an 'emergency party' burying bodies in the Switch Line area on Fri 06 Oct, one of whom was 2/Lt Denis J YEAMAN, 'A' Coy, who was killed by a shell that same day along with several riflemen.  They were among the men of 21/KRRC who had assembled in Switch Trench ahead of the major attack planned towards Guedecourt, including Dennis.  Fortuitously Dennis was absent when the barrage hit, part of a small group who had had left the men in order to take their spare kit to a nearby dump ahead of the attack.

2/Lt Yeaman was also buried at 57c.T.1.c.2.8.

Two other Yeoman Rifles officers killed in the 15 Sep attack are also listed as having been concentrated into the Guards' Cemetery from 57c.T.1.c.2.8 - 2/Lts Robert Butler NIVISON and Frank BENTON.

This location seems to have become an accepted burial spot, since three Aussies were later buried there, killed 02 Feb 1917.

 

Below is 41st Division Admin order No A/82/2 of 15 Sep 1916, which gives the detailed instructions on burial of the dead from the forthcoming battle.  As it is of great general interest I post it in full.

Source: WO 95/2620/1

Next here's the associated map.  The divisional sector is divided into three narrow bands marked in blue crayon.  You can also see the words 'Brigade' in blue.  These are the brigade allocations mentioned in Para 2 of the orders.  The full map shows the bde numbers, but I have cropped off the southern half to make the map workable.  From NW to SE they are 122, 123 and 124.

As regards the selected burial spots mentioned in Para 3, this copy from the archive unfortunately only appears to have those in the 123 Bde's sector marked.  It's probably the copy issued to that Bde HQ.  I will scour the archives for the 124 Bde version, but it's likely to have been weeded. 

I've added the approx location of 57c.T.1.c.2.8 for interest.  It actually looks to be just W of the bde sector boundary and in that of 123 Bde, but given the state of the battlefield one cannot expect super precision.

Source: WO 95/2620/1

I'll return to the question of the graves' concentration to Lesboeufs later, as I've run out of time!

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MBrockway]

19 hours ago, mrfrank said:

One thing did puzzle me when looking up the names first time around and that concerned L/Cpl TW Denison. CWGC has him killed in action on 05Oct16 and commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial.

I notice that his date of death on the grave concentration report is 15 Sep 1916, as is the date for all ten riflemen.

The initial CWGC/IWGC assumption was perhaps that all ten died in the same action, but regimental information corrected this.  We know that 2/Lt Yeaman definitely died in October.