Guest VC89 Posted 27 August , 2010 Share Posted 27 August , 2010 Hi, A while ago I bought this two ww1 bugles but lately I started to doubt about their authenticity One is from the "ROYAL WELSH FUSILIERS" with the word welsh spelled correctly. I have read somewhere that this was only the case between the boer war and 1920, before and after that period it was spelled WELCH. The other is from the "ARGYLL & SUTHERLAND HIGHLANDERS". Someone has told me that they did'nt use a bugle but used bagpipe instead. Can someone help with the question, original or not? P.S: The RWF Bugle had so much dirt on it that it was almost unrecognizable so I cleaned it. Thats why it looks almost as new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 27 August , 2010 Share Posted 27 August , 2010 The Argylls are and were not a Royal regiment and so not entitled to Royal cords ...... should be green. Not an Argylls expert but the Drums would have/ should have been taught to play drum, fife and bugle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 27 August , 2010 Share Posted 27 August , 2010 I`ve seen a number of arrow marked bugles but not regimentally marked - do you mean like bayonets, with a shorthand form of the battalion & regiment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VC89 Posted 28 August , 2010 Share Posted 28 August , 2010 Hi, Thanks for replying I see no arrow or engravings on my bugles. So from what I understand from your replies (English is not my native language) I can conclude that this bugles are not from ww1. But are they fakes or from an other (later) period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 28 August , 2010 Share Posted 28 August , 2010 Modern fakes, common in tourist shops. Sorry. Regards, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 4 January , 2011 Share Posted 4 January , 2011 Can a military unit impress its own arrow marks or can only government approved inspection establishments do that? This photo shows a post WW2 Gloucester Regt mark with arrow. If it`s genuine, then who would have done it - the Gloucester Regt armourer or the bugle maker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 4 January , 2011 Share Posted 4 January , 2011 difficult to imagine the army NOT marking its bugles individually ....... even if only to put Drummer X on a charge for possessing and using Drummer Y's, having lost his own. Otherwise Drummer Y gets a huge fine and extra duties blowing the dawn chorus, having resorted to stealing Drummer Z's item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 4 January , 2011 Share Posted 4 January , 2011 Yes, one imagines that bugles would be individually marked but that doesn`t seem to be often the case. Maybe marking was a difficult job, due to the softness and curvature of the metal,for the unit to do without distorting the bugle? The bugle shown in post #7 has a very neat marking. It looks professionally done & that indicates to me that it was done by the makers. It seems unlikely, though, that the army would order a unit marked bugle. Maybe a regiment could place its own order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony paley Posted 5 January , 2011 Share Posted 5 January , 2011 Regarding the Gloucestershire Regt. bugle. Coincidence? only in 1951 the 1st Battalion fought the famous action on the Imjin River in Korea, where the bugles were asked to play their instruments in response to the Chinese trumpets. The battalion nearly all went into captivity, with their bugles. Anyway long way from WW1. Tony P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 10 January , 2011 Share Posted 10 January , 2011 I talked to a man today who`d been a boy bugler in a RM band. He said that buglers had their own mouthpiece but could draw any bugle from stores and none were individually marked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 11 January , 2011 Share Posted 11 January , 2011 Modern fakes, common in tourist shops. Sorry. Regards, Paul. I don't know bugles, but suspect this is true - it's too easy to copy brass badge castings and solder them to a modern product. I've many times seen 'U-boat' telescopes appear in auctions with badges soldered on and spurious 'Zeiss Jena' markings, when the scope is clearly a recent repro. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 11 January , 2011 Share Posted 11 January , 2011 Hi, A while ago I bought this two ww1 bugles but lately I started to doubt about their authenticity One is from the "ROYAL WELSH FUSILIERS" with the word welsh spelled correctly. I have read somewhere that this was only the case between the boer war and 1920, before and after that period it was spelled WELCH. The other is from the "ARGYLL & SUTHERLAND HIGHLANDERS". Someone has told me that they did'nt use a bugle but used bagpipe instead. Can someone help with the question, original or not? P.S: The RWF Bugle had so much dirt on it that it was almost unrecognizable so I cleaned it. Thats why it looks almost as new. These bugles are mass produced (together with the badges) in Pakistan (often at Sialkot) and then imported for sale by unscrupulous 'antiques' salesmen. Genuine issue bugles were not 'generally' engraved with the unit, nor fitted with badges (which would affect both balance and tone) but usually just had the maker, year of manufacture and a WD arrow (crow's foot). Unit Marking was in any case carried out with a set of die-stamps held by each CQMS and required thumping in with a hammer. Bugles were not issued to individuals or stamped with service numbers, but mouth pieces were issued personally and could be fitted to any of the bugles held on a rack in the battalion's Corps of Drums store. Prize bugles were often purchased by the officers in silver and presented at competitions and these were frequently inscribed with the name of the recipient and his regiment, but never fitted with a badge for reason above. A duty bugler took post every day (and continued to do so right into the 1980s) and his first call was 'Rouse', after which he positioned himself between the Adjutant's and RSM's offices, making calls for 'Officers', 'Orderly Sergeants/Corporals' and 'Cookhouse/Dinner' calls as directed. All calls were preceded by the regimental call so that in a garrison of several units you could listen for your own bugler and thus what was required. In the evening he played 'Defaulters' and 'Tattoo' (First and Last Post) and finally, 'Lights Out'. I forget the notes for my own regiment's call but I recall that when sung out it was Twentythird.....Twentythird! I can still hear Fusilier Llewelyn's (our CO's bugler) crystal clear notes in my mind and remember running to the RHQ with duty side arm (a bayonet) slapping on my hip. Some regiments struggled to maintain this tradition but my own kept it going very well, with standing orders little changed for drummers from 1914-18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel A Posted 20 December , 2017 Share Posted 20 December , 2017 I have just come across a bugle, with authentic green worsted cord attached, neatly stamped 'Inter Service'. Does anyone have more information on these bugles please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 20 December , 2017 Share Posted 20 December , 2017 This is a digression so look away now. In my grammar school many years ago we had no Cadet Corps, but nevertheless several in my year belonged to the Hove unit. One was a bugler, and brought his mouthpiece to school. We discovered that rolling a "rough book" [ = exercise book ] into a cone, and inserting the mouthpiece into the narrow end, made a very staisfactory ersatz bugle, instantly dismantled as the master looked round. Innocent rough book in one hand, and mouthpiece concealed in the other. Several of us invested in mouthpieces for future mischief making. School Speech day in the Town Hall was a bridge too far, and the bugle band bottled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 14 March , 2018 Share Posted 14 March , 2018 Here`s an interesting "4th Dragoon Guards" bugle recently unsold on a well known online auction site. I`ll refrain from comment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 14 March , 2018 Share Posted 14 March , 2018 (edited) In the mid to late 1980's, a suprising number of bugles appeared on the market. All were suitably battered with many having unit cap badges crudely soldered on or unit names impressed. All those that I saw, without exception, had brand new bugle cords. Question a dealer over it and all you would get was, bought it at auction or from a house clearance. The market I suspect, was wrecked by this sort of activity TR Edited 14 March , 2018 by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suesalter1 Posted 14 March , 2018 Share Posted 14 March , 2018 I still live in hope of finding the real deal, but it seems to be a forlorn hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303man Posted 30 March , 2018 Share Posted 30 March , 2018 (edited) This one is the real deal, Later ones are marked Boosey and Hawkes when the 2 companies merged in 1930. I also have the original 1914 Manual. Edited 30 March , 2018 by 303man spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 30 March , 2018 Share Posted 30 March , 2018 8 minutes ago, 303man said: This one is the real deal, Later ones are marked Boosey and Hawkes when the 2 companies merged. I also have the original 1914 Manual. Very nice combination. I do have a couple of potters broad arrow stamped bugles, one 1890 and the other 1900. Frustratingly the 1890 has an engraving to the brass ring, virtually polished out but can make out 2nd W.Y.V. R.E. And I think 25 years. both a wee bit bashed, but somebody cherished it enough to polish it to death. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303man Posted 30 March , 2018 Share Posted 30 March , 2018 On the Hawkes and Son Bugles the Broad arrow is sometimes found below the date as well as above the words Hawkes and Sons. No broad arrow and just a date a bit like a commercial SMLE not accepted into service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suesalter1 Posted 30 March , 2018 Share Posted 30 March , 2018 Ohh, where did you get that from? And how much did you pay (if you don't mind saying)? Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 30 March , 2018 Share Posted 30 March , 2018 Here`s mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suesalter1 Posted 30 March , 2018 Share Posted 30 March , 2018 Now I doubly jealous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 30 March , 2018 Share Posted 30 March , 2018 (edited) I have a Boosey & Hawkes Ltd example from 1946, the broad arrow is below the name and 'Makers . London', but above the date. Interestingly a friends father did sub contract work for the company before WW2. Mike. Edited 30 March , 2018 by MikeyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303man Posted 30 March , 2018 Share Posted 30 March , 2018 3 hours ago, suesalter1 said: Ohh, where did you get that from? And how much did you pay (if you don't mind saying)? Sue Sue what are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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