Cavalry units of the 1st World War

[KennethB]

Thanks everybody,

Been a bit busy , so not been following up as well as I might.

If the Yeomanry didn't have guidons (I've also not found any reference of colours from WW1 era and they were a hussar unit) what did they use for colours?

Also another question on the machine gun sections attached to mounted units. Were they of similar size to those of attached to Infantry Battalions or smaller?

I can't thank you guys enough! Still organizing all this info, but I'm sure the questions will start rolling in again soon.

Cheers,

Ken

[Philip Wilson]

Hi all,

I've been watching with interest several threads that have been on going in the forum on Cavalry. This has lead to me being even more confused about this topic. Recently I found that my Great Grand Dad (a bit of a surprise, seems the man I thought was my Great Grand Dad was a Step Great Grand Dad) was in the 1/1 Worcestershire Yeomanry. Given the fact that the western front was a meat grinder and that cavalry was of limited use during the deadlock, etc etc etc.

Ken

I have just seen this thread - firstly the 1st/1st Worcestershire Yeomanry (Queen's Own Worcesterhire Hussars) saw service at Gallipoli and in the Palestine Campaigns during the Great War..

Much depends on when your Great Grandad joined the Regiment - can you please provide his name and initials and I will look in my copy of 'The Yeomanry Cavalry of Worcestershire 1914-22 to see if he was in the original contingent or in one of the eighteen subsequent drafts to the Regiment .

Do you know his date of entry into theatre? Without his name and initials I cannot begin to answer which actions he may have been present at. You have asked a number of questions which I am happy to logically answer, upon receipt of your reply.

Philip.

[Steven Broomfield]

Very interesting questions! But I'll answer just one of the easy ones about the number of Squadrons in a regiment. The peace-time organisation was 4 Sqdns plus HQ but the wartime structure was three only plus HQ, so one was disbanded and the men absorbed into the remaining three.

Not sure if that's the case in Regular regiments (might be wrong). Certainly, the 11th H make no mention of any reorganisation, and refer only to A, B and C Squadrons. The Hampshire Yeomanry, however, did break up C Squadron to reinforce A, B and D, so it might be a Yeomanry thing.

[Philip Wilson]

Regular Cavalry Regiments have 3 Squadrons 'A', 'B' and 'C'.

Yeomanry Regiments have four Squadrons 'A', 'B', 'C' and 'D', but on declaration of War - the wartime establishment is 3 Squadrons only plus HQ.

The Warwickshire Yeomanry mobilized at Birmingham on the 5th August 1914 and assembled in full strength that day. On the 6th August 'A' Squadron was broken up , in accordance with the scheme of mobilization, and one third of the men transferred to each of the other three Squadrons 'B', 'C' and 'D' .

'B' Squadron mobilized at Warwick on the 5th August. as did 'C' Squadron at Coventry and 'D' Squadron at Stratford. Each Squadron consisted of 120 ORS and 6 Officers By the 10th August all 3 Squadrons paraded at Warwick , together with Headquarters Staff which consisted of 9 Officers and 3 Senior NCOs. Broadly speaking the WkY consisted of some 400 men when at full strength.

The Worcestershire Yeomanry mobilized at the same time, 'A' at Kidderminster, 'B' in Birmingham, 'C' at Malvern and 'D' including Headquarters at Worcester. The war time establishment of a cavalry regiment provides for 3 Squadrons and HQ, therefore after mobilization 'B' Squadron Worcestershire Yeomanry was divided up and scattered amongst the remaining three Squadrons.

The Worcesterhire Yeomanry arrived in Warwick on the 11th August and joined the 1st South Midland Mounted Brigade (Warwickshire, Worcestershire and Gloucestershire Yeomanries) the rest is history.

Cavalry Regiments have Guidons as do Yeomanry Regiments. The Warwickshire, Worcestershire and Gloucestershire Yeomanries are part of the Corps of Hussars, they also carried swords when in the mounted role.

[KennethB]

Philip,

Thanks, one mystery solved for me. You had previously recommended the 'The Yeomanry Cavalry of Worcestershire 1914-22' to me in a thread I posted a while back on Private Albert Edward Hunt 325990 1/1 Worcestershire Yeo 1915 to 1919.

In reading the book I could not find any reference to "B" squadron but I couldn't find a explanation as to why. Albert's service record survives, but I can't see any Squadron letter in it. Do you know if a nominal role exists for the Worcestershire Yeo for this time period.

Also do you know of a good resource for the history of the 1st South Midland Mounted Brigade?

Finally do you have any idea as to the colours of their guidon?

Ken

[Philip Wilson]

Ken

I thought this sounded familiar - yes Pte A.E.Hunt , Worcestershire Yeomanry was in the 13th Draft - sailed from Southampton 11 December 1916 arrived Alexandria 26 December 1916 via France. The original embarkation roll does not list the men by Squadrons nor are there any clues in the book as to which Squadrons the men in any of the drafts have been posted to - somewhat frustrating.

You really ought to contact the Worcestershire Yeomanry Museum and see if they have any nominal rolls for the different Squadrons covering the Great War, likewise for the Colour of their Guidon.

The WkY printed nominal rolls in booklet form for each Squadron, showing name, rank, number, date of enlistment and home address. .We have examples in the WkY Museum covering the years prior to the Great War and 1914 only - they are clearly a valuable resource for anybody trying to find out more about a particular soldier.

I will get back to you later re 1st South Midland Division - for the starting point are the Orders of Battle of Divisions. Regimental War Diaries do not tend to mention individuals by name unless there are good reasons for doing so.

[Steven Broomfield]

Incidentally, coming back to an earlier question, Hussars forwent Guidons in the 1830's, resuming their use in the mid 1950's (about 1956, I believe). In the interim, Battle Honours were displayed on their Kettle Drum Banners. Very good examples of both can bee seen in Horsepower, the KRH Museum in Winchester (10th Royal Hussars and 11th Hussars guidons, and 10th Royal Hussars Drum Banners).

[Philip Wilson]

Guidons were originally carried by all Regiments of the cavalry of the line but in 1833 the use of Guidons for the Light Cavalry (Light Dragoons), (Hussars and Lancers) was discontinued and instead Battle Honours were displayed on their Drum Banners. In recent years however, Guidons have been reintroduced.

The term Guidon is derived form the old Grench Guyg-homme, the flag carried by the Leader of Horse. It has always been swallow-tailed and junior to a Standard. In medieval times superior knights bore a square standard in the field, were as those of a lesser degree bore a swallow-tailed Guidon.

Gallantry in action could be rewarded by an elevation in class and this was signified by the tails being cut off the Guidon thereby converting it to a Standard. Prior to 1947 Guidons and Colours were not provided from army funds for Territorial Regiments but in 1908 regulations permitted each infantry Battalion not designated Rifles to carry colours and each Yeomanry Regiment designated Dragoons to carry a Guidon.

The Guidon of the Queen's Own Warwickshire and Worcestershire Yeomanry which was presented in 1958 at Pembroke Castle can be seen in the Warwickshire Yeomanry Museum.

The book 'Yeomanry Wars' has some excellent coloured plates showing examples of Yeomanry Guidons.

[Robert Dunlop]

Thank you, Philip. Very interesting.

Robert

[KennethB]

Philip,

Stellar!

Thank you for your time!

Ken

[nigelfe]

While this may have been true of earlier wars, cavalry from all sides on the Western Front were trained to fit dismounted. It is best not to think of the cavalry as being defined by the charge.

IIRC definitely not what Rishard Holmes says in his 'Riding the Retreat', and I treat Holmes as a reliable source. Basically he says that fully trained for mounted and dismounted action was a characteristic of British Cavalry, the continental cavalries were more or less welded into their saddles. He also states that the first shot fire by the BEF was by a cav corporal.

Besides the Indian Army, Canada also had a single cav bde in France, including RCHA. Aust and NZ LH Bdes relied entirely on Brit arty.

Field Service Pocket Book 1914, does, of course give the orgs.

Cav Bde in Cav Div:

HQ, 3 regts, sigs troop, total 85 offrs, 1633 ORs, 1623 riding horse, 232 draught horse, 18 pack horses, 6 MGs, various carts, 1 m/car, 73 bicycles, 3 m/cycles.

Cav Bde not in Cav Div:

HQ, 3 Regts, 1 RHA bty, 1 Ammo Colm, 1 Fd Tp RE, 1 Sig Tp,, 1 Cav Fd Ambulance, total 104 offrs, 2180 OR$s, 1826 riding horse, 581 draught horses, 32 pack horses, 6 x 13-pr, 6 MGs, various carts and wagons, 5 m/cars, 94 bicycles, 3 m/cycles

Cav Regt: 26 Offrs, 523 ORs

Cav Div: main elements 4 Cav Bdes, 2 RHA Bdes

Last Brit cav charge may have been by 1 (Kings) DG in 1919 (3rd Afghan War).

[SteveMarsdin]

Good afternoon Nigel,

Here is a photo of French Chasseurs d'Afrique fighting dismounted in 1914. In the earliest engagements of August 1914, the 3e Regiment fought both dismounted and mounted. In the small scale skirmishes in the "scouting" 2 days prior to 22 August they were on horseback; in the main engagement at Rossignol, many fought dismounted.

[KennethB]

Everybody,

I again thank you all for helping with this. If I've missed thanking or responding to anyone, I'm sorry.

OK,

Since the thread has had far more legs that I had though it would, and we have answered most of my original questions lets carry on forward.

Another British Cavalry question.

• uniform, head-wear, and armaments?

Royal Horse Artillery

• organization
• gun sizes
• were they only attached to brigades or could they act independent (sorry if this is a obvious one)
• did the 'Dominion' forces organize the same as British
• regiments
• web sources or reading suggestions

Other Nation's Cavalry (the photo of the French Chasseurs d'Afrique got me thinking) so starting with the French (of which I am totally clueless about)

• organization
• did the French use their cavalry similar to British cavalry. In reading 'A World Undone' by G.J. Meyers, he shows that the early war French military doctrine was all attack, and no defense. Wondering how their cavalry fit in to this doctrine
• did they have horse artillery (also sorry if this is a obvious one)
• regiments
• did they last the war as cavalry or were they dismounted and converted to infantry
• web sources or reading suggestions

Ken

[cdr]

Hello

Cavalry from all nations was willing to fight dismounted. For the Belgian army in 1914 almost all cavalry actions were dismounted (Eg battle of Haelen) Even the Germans did likewise. (altough there were about 9 charges by german cavalry at Haelen, the most efficient action was the dismounted action by the 2 regiments of the Leibhusarenbrigade)

For the French you can maybe look for info on the cavalry corps of general Sordet

Carl

[SteveMarsdin]

Good afternoon All,,

Apart from Sordet's cavalry corps there were other cavalry divisions operating, One of the earliest French Cavalry divisional encounters (and defeats) was at the Battle of Longlier (sometimes called the Battle of Hamipre) on 20 August 1914. The cavalry were supported by infantry and artillery and there are several descriptions of the battle on francophone sites. This link http://www.cgsc.edu/carl/download/csipubs/scouts_out.pdf provides a description of the engagement in (American) English. It's around page 45 or document search for Longlier.

[Steven Broomfield]

Another British Cavalry question.

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• uniform, head-wear, and armaments?

I'd say that from a photo, unless you looked closely, you'd not see a difference between a foot slogger or a horse soldier in the British service. Spurs, obviously, and the puttees wound in opposite directions (but I can't remember which, and am blessed if I can see the difference anyway). Normal cap, replaced by steel helmet in 1916.

In the Middle East, solar topees were worn, replaced (from photographs, I'd say) in 1918, though I have read that the Indian cavalry were had their steel helmets removed when they left France and not replaced (happiness for Sikhs, dismay for Dogras).

[squirrel]

And the cavalry would have worn bandoliers on mounted duties; webbing equipment when in the trenches would have been more practical. The .303 SMLE would have been the standard rifle and presumably they would have used the Lewis and Vickers MG's in the trenches rather than the Hotchkiss - I am sure that somebody will know more about this.

For the organisation of the RHA, RFA and RGA I suggest you use the link to the Long, Long Trail at the top of the page.

[Robert Dunlop]

There should be some examples of German cavalry fighting dismounted in Jack's forthcoming book on First Ypres.

Robert

[Philip Wilson]

Last Brit cav charge may have been by 1 (Kings) DG in 1919 (3rd Afghan War).

Yes the last mounted charge of British Cavalry in India was the action involving one Squadron of the KDGs under the command of Captain W.R.F.Cooper on 15 May 1919 .

Earlier that day a reconnaisance had been ordered commanded by Colonel MacMullan of the 1/15th Sikhs, supported by 3 Squadrons of King's Dragoon Guards, the 1/15th Sikhs, one section (2 guns) M Battery RHA and one section of No.15 Machine Gun Squadron.

The dispositions of the force for the attack on the Village of Girdi can be read in 'Crisis on the Frontier - the Third Afghan War and the Campaign in Waziristan 1919-20'. - page 58. Although the village was captured by 9.30am the Afghans began working their way round the southern flank. At 10.30am a retirement was ordered and by 12.30am the enemy forces were within 300 to 400 yards of the RHA Guns positioned near Robat Fort . As the 1/15th Sikhs continued to retire towards the RHA guns one Squadron of KDGs charged the enemy inflicting heavy losses. By 1300hrs the force had returned to camp .

To my mind the action on 15 May 1919 is 'a supported cavalry charge' there being other arms present in close proximity especially artillery providing support and covering fire.

[Robert Dunlop]

Philip, your last point is precisely what all major powers recognised as the only sensible way that a charge could be executed against an unrouted enemy. Firepower was needed to suppress the enemy, whether it be from dismounted colleagues (which was one of the drivers to teach cavalry how to fight dismounted) or neighbouring units, artillery, and/or machine guns.

Robert

[Steven Broomfield]

presumably they would have used the Lewis and Vickers MG's in the trenches rather than the Hotchkiss - I am sure that somebody will know more about this.

The Vickers (increased from 2 per regiment to 4 in mid-1915) were brigaded in early 1916. Hotchkiss guns were issued at the time Vickers were removed. I'm not sure whether Lewis were used, but not sure if it makes logical sense to train blokes as Hotchkiss gunners, only to reallocate Lewis in the trenches.

[Bill Berndt]

Guidons (pronounces Gheedon). Gideons are Bibles

Many of your questions are answered in the LLT (top left of the screen). If you haven't already, I suggest you potter there and come back with any supplementary.

I would add that Indian cavalry formations generally had one British to two Indian cavalry regiments per brigade.

One of the great attributes of British cavalry (with regard to your question about comparison between ALH and Birtish cavalry usage) was that British cavalry were trained and equipped to act as mounted infantry, as well as pure cavalry.

For example, under the tutelage of Lt E Spiers (later to gain fame as liaison officer with the French), the 11th Hussars went to France in 1914 with not one man as a 3rd Class shot. I believe nearly half the regiment were either Marksmen or 1st Class shots. Equipped with the standard infantry rifle (rather than the carbine used in many armies), British cavalry could, and did, act as infantry on many occasions.

Good hunting and come back with any extra questions.

Steven: I am very new here and fascinated by the amount of info you have provided in this thread. Just intrigued by the pronunciation of "guidon" as I did not realize it might be different from what I learned in the US Army. We always pronounced it "guy-don", as if the first syllable was a long i, which might be a corruption of the French word. And, if you'll excuse my ignorance, what is a "solar topee" headgear? Thanks.

Bill Berndt

[squirrel]

The Vickers (increased from 2 per regiment to 4 in mid-1915) were brigaded in early 1916. Hotchkiss guns were issued at the time Vickers were removed. I'm not sure whether Lewis were used, but not sure if it makes logical sense to train blokes as Hotchkiss gunners, only to reallocate Lewis in the trenches.

And presumably the men went with the Vickers to the MGC© - so would only those cavalry still mounted have been issued with the Hotchkiss? Those manning the trenches on a regular basis being equippd the same as the infantry?

[Steven Broomfield]

Steven: I am very new here and fascinated by the amount of info you have provided in this thread. Just intrigued by the pronunciation of "guidon" as I did not realize it might be different from what I learned in the US Army. We always pronounced it "guy-don", as if the first syllable was a long i, which might be a corruption of the French word. And, if you'll excuse my ignorance, what is a "solar topee" headgear? Thanks.

Bill Berndt

Cheers, Bill, and welcome to the Forum. Quite a few people have contributed to this very interesting thread, and one at least has explained also (and better than me) the guydon.

I suspect "our" pronunciation and "your" pronunciation are one of many differences: "Reveille" (Revallay, not reverlee) "Lieutenant" (Leftenant, not lootenant)... the list goes on.

A solar topee is one of those silly-looking hats with a large crown and brim, designed to keep the sun off European heads and necks while carrying the white man's burden. I'm someone will find a picture to post

[Steven Broomfield]

And presumably the men went with the Vickers to the MGC© - so would only those cavalry still mounted have been issued with the Hotchkiss? Those manning the trenches on a regular basis being equippd the same as the infantry?

Thing is, the dismounted cavalry were only cavalry minus horses: at the end of a tour in trenches they were reunited with the horses and life resumed its normal course. In February 1916 the MG section of the 11th Hussars joined those of the Bays and the 5th Dragoon Guards to form the 1st Cavalry Machine Gun Squadron; at the same time an establishment of one Hotchkiss per troop was alloted (though only 6 arrived in time for a move south). Every officer and man was trained in their use. The 11th's history seems to make no mention of Lewis guns, so I can only surmise the Hotchkiss was taken into the line with the regiment. Interestingly, however, the 11th seem (apart from short spells in the winter of 1917/18, near Bourlon) not to have undertaken any spells in the trenches after the issue of the Hotchkiss, so maybe that answers the question!